Shawbury Australian 29th training and 2nd Squadron

[tamiwell]

Hello,

 

I was wondering if anyone could help me interpret a soldiers service records a little better please? 

 

His name was Wilfred Edward Rix (1507) and he was originally part of the 10th Battalion of the Australian Infantry.  I've attached the paper I'm curious about from his service records.

 

In September 1917 he was transferred to the 29th Training Squad at Shawbury England.  It seems he continued to be a Private, does anyone know what sort of work he was likely to do if he was a Private?  I'm presuming he couldn't have been a pilot?

 

I'm not sure what to make of the notes after this.  It says ' Pte classified PB' and 'no 1 Com Depot - Pte to Shawbury'.  Then it records 'No 1 two Squadron Pte TOS? from 10th Bn'.  Then nothing until he returns home with the 2nd Squadron on the Kaiser-I-Hind.

 

I'm just trying to determine if he could have been part of a flight crew or if he was more likely a ground worker (which is what I'm thinking).  In May he had suffered a GSW to his leg in France so perhaps that kept him on the ground....

 

There is no mention of France so perhaps he stayed at Shawbury?

 

Thank you,

Tamara

[MaxD]

The PB is "Permanent Base" a medical classification that essentially meant not to be employed on the front line.  Note that the sequence of entries in Aug and Sep 1917 is wrong (and has been marked up in the record), he was classified PB in August then mustered out to Shawbury in Sep for a course in aviation.  He appears to have remained "on the books" of 10 Bn while at Shawbury (the note about querying the TOS date which is erased suggests some admin confusion about the date which was resolved). 

 

If "No1 Two Squadron" is 2 Squadron then they were in France in Jul 1918.  See later post.

He was a private throughout, nothing about his trade there but certainly not aircrew as there would be a note of specific training.

 

Max

Edited 4 April , 2020 by MaxD
Correction

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

But what about that note 'Pte. (Cadet)'...?

Oh, I see on closer inspection that Cadet has been crossed out in red pencil. Hmmmm.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[tamiwell]

Thanks for helping!  So if he was there to take a course in aviation does that mean that he was hoping to become a pilot perhaps or aircrew member?  It must not have eventualised I'm thinking?  It looks as if nothing happened with his training though and he stayed there in England until embarking for Australia?  I'm trying to write up a biography for him so I'm hoping to get a better idea of his service time during the war.  I just find it very hard to understand the military service records at times!

[MaxD]

You have to look at all the relevant pages of his record to get a fuller picture. 

 

The first Australian Flying Corps unit his records mentions is 69 Squadron at Carlton on  21 Aug 1917.  This was later renamed 3 Squadron AFC, it was the first AFC squadron to enter France beginning on 19 Aug 1917.  Their war diary is here https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1342824?image=1  The diary has nominal rolls of the officers and men who went in August 1917 but I don't find his name among them.  He is certainly not among the aircrew, having just joined from the infantry, and wounded, he would, if he was there, have been among the ground crew doing any job from clerk to aircraft handler, he hasn't yet had any specific training in the AFC at least as far as his records go.  The next month is here:https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1342564?image=1, you could search each page for his name, there are 126 of them.

 

However,  his next move according to the record he made was to 29 Training Squadron AFC on 14 Sep 1917.  This was later (Jan 1918) renamed 5 Training Squadron AFC.  As this is less than one month after the previous posting date, I suspect that he didn't go to France and, as so often happens, his record isn't entirely reliable. Their diary is :

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1338812  His arrival is recorded on 14th Sep listed with other privates, not as a cadet who are all  listed separately.  At this point therefore he would appear to be still among the ground crew.  He was still there on 1 Jun 1918.  On 14 July 1918 he moves to No 1 Two Squadron Station AFC which one sheet of his record records as 1st 2nd Squadron Stationt Minchinhampton  - this is not 2 Squadron RFC which I mistakenly referred to earlier..  He has obviously been on the books of 10 Bn up to now, that is rectified by the TOS entry of the same date.  In Feb 1919 he is still with that unit.

 

Minchinhampton was the home of 5 Trg Squadron.   On 14 July 1918 the diary of 5 Training Squadron records the transfer of 9 C Class men who were employed as batmen by the squadron to the officers mess to go on on the Station strength.  He may well be one of these 9 as this may be the 14 July 1918 record entry at Minchinhampton.

 

So he was in UK after the wounding, perhaps at Carlton, certainly at Shawbury and Minchinhampton and (speculation) working as a batman for one of the officers.

 

Max

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear Max,

Good work! 

The 'Cadet' entry was a red herring, then.

Batman seems a feasible sort of a job for a wounded Aussie Other Rank...

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[MaxD]

Confirmation - the war diary for 5 Training Squadron has the Squadron orders for 15 July 1918 that records the transfer of 9 batmen from the squadron to the station strength, he is on that list:

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/awm-media/collection/RCDIG1006426/large/4999123.JPG

 

He didn't move station, the transfer was a change of "boss" from the squadron to the station on which the squadron was stationed. (I love the last part of that sentence)

Crossed in the post!

 

Max

Edited 4 April , 2020 by MaxD

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear Max,

Brilliant research!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[MaxD]

That is very kind, enjoyed that one  Stay safe (although Germany seems to be making a better fist of testing etc).

 

Best

 

Max

[tamiwell]

Thank you so very much!!!  Fantastic information!  Very very much appreciated!  What was a Batman?  Can I just ask which part of the record abbreviations meant 'minchinhampton' I didn't spot that one,

Thanks so much again!

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear tamiwell,

Minchinhampton is almost certainly (I am an Australian living in Germany, and therefore not so familiar with the UK, although I have often visited) merely a place name.

It is not shown on the Record - but Max has already told us that it was the RAF Station which housed the No. 1 Two Sqn. Okay?

Batman. Also known as an Officer's Servant.

The somewhat more democratic Australians used the term Batman, rather than Servant (!). Such an Other Rank would be responsible to one or more Officers: keeping their gear in order, cleaning leather equipment and shoes, bringing tea at wake-up time and so on.

Kindest regards,

Kim. 

[tamiwell]

Can I just clarify something sorry!  If Wilfred was recorded as being part of the 1/2nd Squadron AFC when he returned home would this have been the title of the unit he was attached when he was transferred on the 14.7.1918 to work in the Station Officers Mess from the 5th Training Squadron?

Thank you!

[Guest]

Mates,

 

He is shown WIA L/Leg with the 10Bn AIF in France, while he is shown going to 2 Sqn AFC in the UK is job is not mentioned, so he was possibly not an airmen or Ground crew with 2 Sqn AFC?

 

From what I can see he was possibly either a Clerk or Storeman with 2 Sqn AFC, as he did not go to France with them remaining in the UK with a non operational employment?

 

As his medical class is shown that would appear to make sence.

 

S.B

 

 

[tamiwell]

What is his medical class?  Would that be where they wrote that he was 'C' Class?  It sure has been a tricky service record to try to follow along with!  I have 14 soldiers to research for a community project and I want to make sure I get his details right if I can.  Already everyone has been so very helpful and I understand so much more than I did!

: )

[MaxD]

It is almost certain that the Australian Army used the same medical terminology as the British army where C meant "home service only" - as demonstrated by his remaining in UK after wounding.

 

Minchinhampton is recorded on page 5 of his record.  It would be correct to put that post as "Station Staff" as the specific 1st Two Squadron designation eludes me.  (It may mean simply the first two squadron station).  I must here apologise for leaving out a significant fact.  5 Trg Sqn in Shawbury moved to Minchinhampton in early April 1918.

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/U51021

 

In putting the information together, one needs not only to look at his record but at other sources, Wikipedia has pieces on each of the squadrons mentioned and then the war diaries are of help too. For example, in the war diary catalogue, 5 Training Squadron is originally called 29 Training Squadron.  The Australian War Memorial is a must for the diaries and for unit information.

 

SB - he never went to 2 Sqn AFC, it was 69 Squadron later 3 Squadron AFC that his record suggests he joined on the day they went to France.  There is no evidence to show he went hence my supposition that he probably remained at the station at South Carlton Lincolnshire until he was sent to Shawbury 3 weeks later. He was clearly a batman before 14 July 1918 because he and his mates are all described as men [already] employed by the squadron as batmen. 

 

For the avoidance of doubt his record is showing:

21 August 1917 – transferred to 69 Squadron AFC at South Carlton.

69 Squadron (later 3 Squadron AFC) leaves for France between 17 and 24 August – he is not shown on the comprehensive list of officers and men who went.  Supposition – he remains at the convalescent depot or at South Carlton Station until:

14 Sep 1917 (one entry says 12 Sep) goes to 29 Training Squadron (later 5 Training Squadron) at Shawbury - this is just 3 weeks later

In early April 1918, 5 Trg Sqn relocated from Shawbury to Minchinhampton

14 July 1918 in Minchinhampton he is transferred from the squadron to the Station Officers Mess.  He was already a batman and is now on the Station Staff.

Max

 

 

[tamiwell]

Hi, Thank you so much for your help in trying to clear this up for me!  

It does seem he went to 1/2 Squadron Station from his notes - I think it must have happened when he was transferred to the 'Station Officers Mess' in July 1918 from the 5th Training Sqd?  I've just copied this part of the record that mentions it.  I couldn't find anything online for a Squadron Station.  Does anyone know what the 'station' reference meant exactly?  

[MaxD]

The station is the name air forces give for what civilians tend to call a base.  A station can have a number of occupants, squadrons and others like maintenance units and so on.  The station is run by a Station Commander, the squadrons and units each have their own commanders.  The station staff look after facilities like messes, repair shops , guard duties and the like that belong to the station as a whol;e for all to use.In this context, Minchinhampton was the location of the Station on which 5 Training Squadron, among others, was located from early April 1918.  The note you are looking at is the same date as the recorded transfer from the squadron to the station staff. The title 1st 2 Squadron Station would be correct and covers the station staff.

 

A bit of further research shows that from 26 February 1918 No 6 Training Squadron was also located at Minchinhampton. https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/U51022  Also moving to Minchinhampton in Feb 1918 was 1st Wing AFC, a superior headquarters.  My thought is that 1st Two Squadron refers to 1st Wing, two squadrons..   Note that it is convention that squadron numbers are always numbers not letters so "Two Squadron" doesn't mean No 2 Squadron which was in France.

 

I fear you may be overthinking it.  He was at Shawbury then moved with 5 Squadron to Minchinhampton and in July instead of working for the squadron he was now, on the same station, working in the officers mess (which served all the occupants of the station).

 

Max

[MaxD]

Sorry about this bitty approach, lots of diaries to search.  I find in 1st Wing diary a record of the establishment of "No 2 Two Squadron Stations" in July 1918 .  Perusal of the unit information on AWM has reference to both 1st  Two Squadron Station and to 2nd Two Squadron Station.

 

Thus Minchinhampton Station and 1st Two Squadron Station are synonymous.

 

Max

 

 

[tamiwell]

Thank you Max, trying not to overthink it but I just wanted to get the details right for Wilfred.  If his service records states 1/2nd Squad or some such notation (there are a few scattered through his papers) as being his last unit at time of discharge I wanted to make sure I got that correct and understood who he was working for.  There is a photograph also of the 1/2nd Squad at Minchinhampton taken in Feb 1919 and I was thinking he could be in it (not that I'll ever know because it's not clear and I don't know what he looked like).  I'm writing up biographies for a few WW1 soldiers as part of a community project and I would hate to have some detail terribly wrong, but thanks to all of your help I think I can explain roughly what he was doing and where he was located at least.  I think he always felt he belonged to the 10th anyway : )

Thank you all very much!

[MaxD]

I do appreciate what you are trying to do.  .Clerks completing paperwork had and have a habit of making up their own abbreviations, Note how his record has the same place rendered No1 Two Sqdn Stn and 1st 2 Sqd Stn on page 5 and as 1/2 Sqdn Stn on page 11 and again No 1 Two Sqd Stn on page 14  A photo with 1/2 Squad is another variation, four variations out of five instances..  I would be much happier to use the term in my post above - used by the Australian War Memorial seen on this page:

:

https://www.awm.gov.au/advanced-search?query=two+squadron+station

 

Good luck

 

Max

 

 

 

Edited 5 April , 2020 by MaxD