RFA 2nd London 4 Battery, Brigade Battery - John Robert Jones 930220

[Chris11]

I have a lot of information about John Robert Jones, my grandfather, including his service at Cambrai and then his wounds at the 1st Battle of Arras in 1918. Some of you are aware of my previous searches, so I won't re-iterate, however I have been concentrating on his service in A battery, 56th Division, 281 Brigade. But I am still seeking info on his gun crew which he believed all perished at the time he was wounded. In revisiting all my information I find that I may have overlooked that he only joined A/281 1st Sept/15th Sept 1917. To rule out other possibilities I would like to find out more about where he was from the time he signed up in 1913 to 1 Sept 1917.

The only posting that I can see on his record is 22nd April and 1st June 1913 where he is recorded as 2nd London 4 battery, Brigade Battery.

The records are poor quality but there are a series of promotions and reversions (one recorded as "reversion Bdr Moore") and he seems to have become Bombardier by the time he was posted to A/281.

So does anyone have any info on 2nd London 4 battery, Brigade Battery, and how do I find out what he was up to for that long period?

Thanks in advance for any light anyone can shed.

Chris.

[keithmroberts]

According to Isles the 14th was only in existence from7 July 1918 to disbandment on 3 November 1918. It was stationed at Clacton-on-Sea . There appaear to be no surviving diaries or records.It was formed from the 8th Battalion the LeicestershireRegiment which had been reduced to a training cadre strength after being badly cut up on the Aisne in May 1918 and was returned to England on 7 July and was then redesignated the 14th West Riding Regt. General Isles was unable to discover any further information.

[Ron Clifton]

Keith - I think this refers to a different thread, started by marigold1 a couple of hours ago.

 

Ron

Edited 31 March , 2020 by Ron Clifton

[David Porter]

11 hours ago, Chris11 said:

So does anyone have any info on 2nd London 4 battery, Brigade Battery

 

1/4th County of London Battery, 1/2nd London Brigade RFA, based at Woolwich, became A/281, 56th Division on May 11, 1916.

Therefore, he was only away from this battery, during the war, for periods of leave or the 15 days as a Base Detail in September 1917.

After mobilization they were at several War Stations in the UK and went to France from Bordon, landing on October 4, 1915.

If you do not already have it, the war diary is  WO 95/2940/3 - 281 Brigade Royal Field Artillery (1915 Aug. - 1919 May).

Edited 1 April , 2020 by David Porter

[Chris11]

5 hours ago, David Porter said:

1/4th County of London Battery, 1/2nd London Brigade RFA, based at Woolwich, became A/281, 56th Division on May 11, 1916.

Thanks David. Does that mean that 1/4th C of London Battery is the equivalent i.e. the same strength, as say the A Battery of 281 Brigade?

To re-iterate the background, I am trying to find the gun crew that were all killed (except John Robert Jones), according to family anecdote, when their gun was hit. I am reasonably sure this happened at Arras on 28th March 1918, but I am trying to rule out all other possibilities. I have been using A/281 as my search criteria, but obviously that won't apply before May 11, 1916. So I assume my search criteria for the earlier period should be 1/4th C of London Battery, London Brigade?

Thanks,

 

Chris.

[David Porter]

1 hour ago, Chris11 said:

To re-iterate the background, I am trying to find the gun crew that were all killed (except John Robert Jones), according to family anecdote

 

It was established in your earlier thread that this was more likely to be a gun crew of 109th Battery in the same brigade.

 

I can add that, looking at the Adjutant and Quarter-Master General's Diary for the same day, casualty figures for March 28th are:

280th Brigade RFA  - 3 ORs Killed, 10 ORs Wounded plus Major G. C. T. Bradly Wounded

281st Brigade RFA  - 7 ORs Killed, 19 ORs Wounded plus Capt. G. B. Wolfe Wounded

56th D.A.C. - 1 OR Killed and 2 ORs Wounded 

 

1 hour ago, Chris11 said:

So I assume my search criteria for the earlier period should be 1/4th C of London Battery, London Brigade?

 

Yes, it is the same battery with much the same strength throughout. It would just be 4th C. of L. Battery before the second line (2/4th) was formed.

[Chris11]

3 hours ago, David Porter said:

It was established in your earlier thread that this was more likely to be a gun crew of 109th Battery in the same brigade.

 

Indeed, and I still believe that will be the case. But I am trying to run to ground any other possibilities, in part because I am getting some resistance from other family members who were told the original story first hand. They say it's easier to convince someone of a lie, than it is to persuade them that what they already believe is untrue. And so I guess this is a common situation, stories that were told to family at the time have been passed down word of mouth, but conflict with the facts that we can now research. They may include embellishments from the soldier, or the subsequent family members, either to make the story better or just leave out something less palatable. In this case there is resistance to the idea that the incident happened in his last actions of the war (because they were told he carried the photo through the rest of the war) and that it wasn't his own A/281 gun crew that was hit (either because he was unaware which gun was hit at the time, or because it made a better story). My guess is he carried that photo through the rest of the war at Catterick where he was rehabilitated, and subsequently at St Mary's Bay where he was cared for, but not on any battle field. And the 109 Battery fits the bill as well because we know that half of A battery was positioned alongside 109 Battery in the embankment around Bailleul-sir-Berthoult on 28th March when John Robert Jones was wounded.

But by ruling out all other options, I can be more confident in this explanation and, if nothing else, explain why it can't be those other options.

So thanks for your help, I will search through the CWGC database using 4th C of L for the period before A/281 was formed.

Of course, the one thing that would really prove my point is if someone ever came forward knowing (after the war) one of the other men in this picture.