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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Old Contemptibles


June Coates

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My grandfather was Thomas Albert Smith, a miner born in Doncaster in 1885. I know that he was gassed during World War I and was invalided out with a pension. At the beginning of World War II he enlisted in the N.D.C. (I do not know what this means) and I have since been told that he was a member of the Old Contemptibles.

 

Prior to his death he was an Inspector of Armaments at the Royal Ordinance Factory near Retford.

 

I am trying to find out more about him and wonder if anyone knows if there is a list of the Old Contemptibles so I can check if he actually was or was not a member.

 

Thank you for any help you can offer.

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Welcome to the forum and good luck with your research.

 

Is this the man who married Gertrude Alice Guest in 1910?

 

No...I mistyped! That's for an Alfred!

 

But was he known as 'Guppy'?

 

George

Edited by George Rayner
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Thank you for your reply George. As far as I know he was not known as Guppy. My grandmother was called Isabel and they lived in Rotherham before the war and then South Kirkby after the war. I only know little bits that I managed to glean from my mum prior to her passing. He died in 1943 of heart failure on Bessacar Golf Course. He wasn't playing! The story is that he was passing through and my uncle found him leaning against a tree. Information about the Old Contemtibles is just from a note I found from my mum.

 

Thank you - June

 

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N D C = National Defence Companies. 

Info here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defence_Companies

Hope that helps. 

Gareth. 

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June

 

to determine his WW1 record, we need to establish more fact, particularly given his is a very common name

 

1. You say he was born in Doncaster in 1885. I cannot see a Thomas Albert born there at around that time. Though there is a Thomas (without the Albert)

 

2. I cannot get a marriage of a Thomas or Thomas Albert Smith, to an Isobel. Have you any idea roughly when or where they married

 

3. Do yo know the date of birth of any of their children. This can be used to establish Isobel's maiden name if we cannot get a marriage

 

It is only with establishing these sort of details that enable us to attack army service

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@AndrewThornton can you assist please? 

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Unfortunately I only know the names of a couple of Chums from the Doncaster Branch. I have very little information on the Branch, sadly. 

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Thank you for your very prompt reply, it is appreciated.

 

In all his documents my grandad is down as Thomas Smith, although my mum said his middle name was Albert. In light of his birth certificate and other records I think she must have been mistaken. A birth certificate dated May 14, 1885 Millhouses Darfield shows Thomas, boy, son of Thomas Smith and Susan Smith formerly Marston.

 

My grandma was Isabel May Harper. I'm not sure where my grandad was posted but I know that in  1906 when they married he was a R. F. A. driver at Woolwich Arsenal. Isabel's father is listed as a labourer at Woolwich Arsenal.

 

There is so much I am trying to piece together about my grandparents. I have no idea how or why he ended up in Woolwich Arsenal.

 

His birth certificate dated May 14, 1885 Millhouses Darfield shows Thomas, boy, son of Thomas Smith and Susan Smith formerly Marston.

 

If there is any other information that might help please let me know. Apart from his marriage certificate - details above - I know nothing other than my mum said he had been gassed during the war and was on a pension. I also have a picture of him in his army uniform just before he died. It is from a distance and I cannot see any details.

 

Thank you once again. June

 

Thank you Corisande for checking for me, but no - he's not my grandad. Best wishes - June

 

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Thanks June

 

I am able to get somewhere with that

 

Isabel May Harper is much easier to research than Thomas Smith :-)

 

If you have Ancestry access have a look at this on her

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/155386078/person/362100293226/facts?_phsrc=SWA17259&_phstart=successSource

which gives the marriage in 1906 in London and in 1911 census in South Kirby in Yorkshire

 

Can you confirm that is her

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The 1911 census shows them as Thomas Smith and Isabel May Smith with their two children - Thomas Albert and Florence Louise - I think that is where the Albert entered the tale. In 1911 census they had to and invariably did, put down their full name, so I suspect we are looking for a  plain Thomas Smith

 

Living at 31 Carlton St, South Kirkby, Nr Wakefield Yorkshire

 

The 1939 Register shows Isabel May Smith living in Doncaster, but Thomas is not there

Edited by corisande
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18 minutes ago, June Coates said:

I know that in  1906 when they married he was a R. F. A. driver at Woolwich Arsenal. Isabel's father is listed as a labourer at Woolwich Arsenal.


This sounds very encouraging, insofar as he could have been an Army Reserve man who was recalled to the colours in 1914. Do you know whether a R.F.A. service number was recorded on the birth certificate? I have seen this on two birth certificates, albeit in wartime.

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His birth certificate dated May 14, 1885 Millhouses Darfield shows Thomas, boy, son of Thomas Smith and Susan Smith formerly Marston.

 

Should that not be Charles, all the census stuff gives his father as Charles. What does the Marriage cert say?

 

He is in 1901 census , a 15year old coal miner, living with his parents in Thurnscoe, Yorkshire, England

Marries in 1906 in London

1911 census back in Yorkshire with his wife, at 31 Carlton St South Kirkby Nr Wakefield Yorkshire, he is a colliery plate layer

 

So his time in RFA was limited, but he must have had an early call up and been off to France if he was an Old Contemptible

 

I cannot get a Pension Card for him, but they are not all yet available

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