Donald McBride

[JohnCameron]

Good afternoon,

 

I hope you are all well.

I am now researching another relative the cousin of Allan Cameron from my first post attached at the bottom.

 

Unfortunately the only information I have is that he was born in Saltcoats, Ayrshire, Scotland in 1895 and this photo attached. Also that this line of our family ended so it is likely he died during the war.
https://imgur.com/gallery/yGBExtP
 
Would anyone be able to help with uniform identification or possibly likely regiments joined relative to his area of birth?

Or just any information in general or its whereabouts is much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

John Cameron

 

 

[Polar Bear]

Well the most obvious thing is that you have the photograph of an officer. Captain or Lieutenant I would say and I favour the latter from what little can be seen of the sleeve cuffs.

 

Then there are the grenades on his lapels. That brings up various options for regiments. However no officer named Donald McBride died during WW1 (according to the CWGC)

[Pat Atkins]

Might those be Royal Artillery collar badges? Just a guess, and I appreciate RE look very similar (though I think they feature more flames on the grenade?) - an expert will be long shortly, no doubt. Don't think they're Royal Scots Fusiliers badges, anyway, which was a first thought.

 

Cheers, Pat

 

 

Edit: should say, there may be other uniform clues which are glaringly obvious! But, got to start somewhere.

Edited 29 March , 2020 by Pat Atkins

[JohnCameron]

Many thanks @Polar Bear and @Pat Atkins for your contributions. Good to know he was possibly not a victim of the conflict!

[clk]

Hi John,

 

This man might be a contender...

 

Image sourced from Ancestry

 

Image sourced from the London Gazette

 

Image sourced from the London Gazette

 

Image sourced from the National Archives

 

Officer file at the National Archives - link

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

[Polar Bear]

If clk has found the right man (and it looks very promising) then we can create the following career path:

 

At some point prior to the war and probably a good few years (given he had reached sergeant by August 1916) he was in one of the Territorial batteries of the Royal Field Artillery. This pre war (albeit part time) service may well have been one of the reasons he was given the commission. It is not uncommon that he changes unit... though I might have expected a change to a different RFA battery... and the move to the Royal Engineers may have suggested a pre war link to an engineering trade perhaps.

 

It can also be seen that he qualifies for the 1915 star which dates his arrival in to a combat area. Again not unusual given it is a Territorial Battery that he is with.

[JohnCameron]

Thank you very much @clk and @Polar Bear this is very helpful!

 

[david murdoch]

In Scotlands People records there are actually very few Donald McBrides in Scotland - only 14 in the 1911 Census and can discount most by age or region. He shows up age 16 and living at 4 Robertson Crescent, Saltcoats  with his widowed father and three older sisters. Occupation apprentice engineer.

Looking at deaths working from him being born 1895 - he died 3rd April 1951 in Larbert, Stirlingshire. Parents names Daniel and Margaret on death certificate match with his 1901 Census entry and his mother died sometime before 1911 census. He never married and his occupation was given as Public Works Contractor. This would explain why the family line stops. He was an engineer from a young age  - probably explaining his transfer to Royal Engineers. There is a newspaper hit for him in 1930s showing he was an engineer contracting for public works for West Lothian council.

Edited 29 March , 2020 by david murdoch

[MaxD]

Loose end - the photo is from his time in the Royal Artillery, "bombs" with fewer flames than RE as noted already but the clinchers are his buttons which have the RA gun.

 

Max

[JohnCameron]

Thank you @david murdoch and @MaxD this is a massive help!

It certainly fits my tree. Donald's sisters owned a clothing store in Saltcoats but the last surviving sister left her estate to our relatives in NZ.

Cheers!

[Pat Atkins]

His 1914-15 Star medal rolls record says he was RFA (TF) with entry into a theatre of war on 9.6.15; the theatre is written as "MEF" - I'd guess the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force, which encompassed Gallipoli and Salonkia (but see this old thread for a discussion of alternatives).

 

A very cursory hunt through LLT suggests some possible units. Lowland Division artillery: CCLXI, CCLXII, CCLXIII Brigades recruited from Kilmarnock/Irvine/Kirkcudbright, Glasgow, and Glasgow, respectively; or CCCXV, CCCXVI, CCCXVII, CCCXVIII (Howitzer) Brigades. The Ammunition Column for the first units was from Ardrossan - might be significant? They arrived in Egypt in June 1915, though they did not then move to Gallipoli I believe.

Edited 30 March , 2020 by Pat Atkins
clarification (I hope)

[JohnCameron]

Thank you @Pat Atkins

 

Just so I get my understanding correct is there no service records for an officer?

 

Or is it simply that they are not available here?
 

 

[Pat Atkins]

Hi John. Officers' service records are kept in the National Archives at Kew, I believe, although they've been weeded so they are somewhat abbreviated from the original collection for each man. They are not available digitally, however. If your man continued to serve into the 1920s, then I think the MOD will still have his service record; you can apply for them, but there's a fairly long wait and a £30 fee. There's useful guidance to this kind of thing on the LLT here.

 

Cheers, Pat

[clk]

Hi John,

 

If I got the right man in post #5, the link to his file is at the bottom of that post. He is the same man as shown in the index of long numbers I posted, as the 149682 admin number is also shown as the 'Former reference in its original department', for the officer file. When I looked yesterday there didn't appear to be any other obvious contenders, but it's a shame that the back of the MIC didn't give an address, which may have helped to confirm it. I don't think that your Donald continued in service long past the end of WW1, otherwise I would have expected him to appear in the index of files that the MoD released for files in their possession, with a 'P' prefixed (officer) admin number.

 

 

Regards

Chris

Edited 30 March , 2020 by clk