1/7 Leeds Rifles 11 Oct 1918

[JohnR]

Hello all

I'm doing some research into my wife's great uncle Pte Jesse Duckenfield Strother killed on Friday 11 10 1918.

I'm pretty sure about details of actions on this day but wondered how I can locate his attestation details and how get hold of diaries which might inform me which company he was in on his last day on earth. He has no known grave so is still lying out there. We aim, God willling, to try to visit the site this summer.

Thank you

JohnR 

[mancpal]

Hello John,

You could start by reading the Long Long Trail which contains a great deal of information on how to research individual soldiers and their units. 

Most importantly do you have his service number? It is often the key to researching a soldier. If you have his medals you will find his number engraved upon them. Any old official  letters, pension claims etc will also show his number. Please post as much information as you know such as family names, addresses, siblings, offspring and so forth and you'll be surprised what the members on here can come up with,

 

Good luck with your research

 

Simon

[JohnR]

Thank you Simon

his first number was 4773 then updated to 266981. He was an older gentleman when he died (41) so I'm speculating that he was a territorial who re-enlisted.

Anyway - I'm hoping that someone with a lot more experience than I will enlighten me.

jOHNr

[mancpal]

He was entitled to the BWM and VM so he didn't serve in a theatre of war before 1/1/16 (unless Ive missed a separate card for a star}. As you suggest he has no known grave but is commemorated on the Vis en Artois memorial (panel 4). As to whether he is "still out there" is open to debate, he could equally have a grave but if his remains could not be identified then he would have a "known unto God" type headstone.

Now you have his service number you can search other avenues such as pension records, I don't have subscriptions so cant check much else for you I'm afraid.

 

Simon

Edited 29 March , 2020 by mancpal

[mancpal]

John,

original territorial service numbers were changed to the 6 digit variety in early (March?) 1917 so you could well be correct about him being a territorial. I wonder if he might have been conscripted in late !916 when older/married men came into the equation? He may have been a pre-war TA soldier who didn't sign up for "Imperial Service" but whose experience stood him in line when conscription came to the fore.

 

Simon

[George Rayner]

I've copied this from Ancestry-you may have it anyway but to save coming back to it. From Soldiers Effects listed four children and DoBs

 

George

 

[JohnR]

Hi George

I have seen this but thank you.

Yes he had four children - all named.

His wife died in Canada in 1914 - they had emigrated and he came back to do his bit.

JohnR

[MaxD]

His regiment was the West Yorkshire Regiment, 1/7th Battalion being known as Leeds Rifles.  The war diary ( am unsure whether you have seen it) you can download is here:

 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354660  The action on 11 Oct 1918 is described although as is normal, what company which man was in is not recorded.  The action took place starting on the road in square T 12 (centre of the map)  at:

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=14&lat=50.21689&lon=3.34155&layers=101465044&b=1

 

Max

[Pol]

Maybe you have already search the war diary.
If you haven't here is an entry of the war diary of the 49th Div. 146 Inf. Brig (West Yorkshire Reg.) 1/7th Bn W095/2795:
"10 Oct. 1918: The Battn. moved by march route to MORENCHIES."
"11 Oct. 1918: Battn Moved into assembly position along road between T.12.d.5.5 and T.12.d.2.9. facing east. Prepartions to attack an enemy position on high grounds before
                         AVESNES-le-SEC?
                        09.00 am : ZERO Hour - Barrage opened - the Battn moved forward and to the attack
                         Captured: about 300 prisoners - 1 field gun - 1 trench mortar battery (4 guns) - many heavy and light machine guns." 
In this entry there  are no causualties recorded.
Now an entry of the war diary of the 49th Divisions for that day:

49th Division - HQ 1/10/1917 - 28/02/1919 W095/2768:

 

"10 Oct. 1918: ....146th Inf. Brig moved to MORENCHIES and TILLOY (HQ at TILLOY)
                        Dull day.
                        Order issued for attack to-morrow with 2nd Canadian Division on left and 24th Division on right"
"11 Oct. 1918: Dull during the early morning - slight fog.
                        At 9 a.m. the Division attacked, 147th Inf. Brig. on the right, 146 th Inf Brig on the left.
Good progress was made at the start and 10.50 a.m. the following line was reprorted: right brigade in touch with 24th Division at U.14.b.0.7 tnece north east along road;
Left brigade reported troops in O33.a and c.
                        At 11 a.m. the enemy counter attacked with German tanks + 5 captured British tanks and forced back the Canadian right.

                        Our Field Artillery engaged the tanks over open sights and eventually under heavy fire from all Arms the enemy tanks retired two being reported damaged at about 31.c.8.4 and U2 central - U.1.b.0.5. - U.1.a.0.5 - N.36.d.0.0. with the Canadians holding the railway in N.36 and N.30.
Fairly heavy casualties were sustained chiefly from the tanks and machine gun fire. Most of the cases were wounded in the face, hand or legs. Not may were killed.
during the afternoon a heavy barrage was put down on the ridge. The valley of the river ERCLIN was continiously harassed as wel as the main road and the village of NAVES.
At 9 p.m. the line given before was confirmed and preparations made to continue the attack tomorrow."

 

In this entry, casualties are reported. it's possible that killed soldiers, due to the counter-attacks, stayed on the battlefield, couldn't be burried and were never found agian. 

 

I have an narrative of that action. If you sent me your email-adress i'll sent it in an attachment.

 

I hope you can go on with your research and maybe find trhe area were your wife's great uncle was killed and missing.

 

Pol

[WhiteStarLine]

9 hours ago, Pol said:

I hope you can go on with your research and maybe find trhe area were your wife's great uncle was killed and missing.

 

Here are some of the British and German positions kindly posted by Pol, plotted on a September 1918 trench map:

 

[Pol]

Thank you for posting these maps.

 

Pol

[JohnR]

Very kind and informative Pol.

I am getting so much positive feedback.

 

Thank you for taking the time...although we have a little more than expected at the moment and this is a welcome distraction

JohnR

[Michelle Young]

I've removed your email address from public view John as spammers can harvest it. Members can contact each other off forum using personal messenger.

Michelle 

[JohnR]

Thanks Michelle

Naive or what!!!