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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

1st World War sailor (or earlier?)


Darryl Hudson

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Hi folks, got this from a car boot sale last year. Can anyone shed more light on the era please? thanks Darryl

NEW SAILOR.jpg

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Hi Darryl,

Its hard to tell exact time frame from what amounts to a 'head & shoulders' shot. First off, he wears 3 GCB's( Good Conduct badges) signifying a minimum of 13 years service.

Without seeing the length of his tunic & how it is joined to his trousers(that is a way to approximate the time frame) I would estimate around the 1WW period.

Love his facial hair, what was at that time referred to as a "full set",  it was either moustache & beard or nothing, moustaches alone were not permitted in the RN.

 

Thanks for posting this great image, & regret not being able to assist you more...

Bryan

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Is the full name and address of the photographer on the back of the card? It may be possible to date the card from that information.

Sepoy

NB Impressive facial hair!

Edited by Sepoy
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9 minutes ago, Sepoy said:

 

Looks like it may be A or H Walton or Walters perhaps? 

Will have a look at some of mine, perhaps might have one by this photographer.

 

Edited by RNCVR
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You know, IF you use a little imagination, with that beard & moustache, he looks similar to Tsar Nicholas II to me.

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Thanks Bryan! It certainly is an impressive display of facial hair and he does look pretty regal.  Unfortunately there is nothing on the back of the card. 

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Very little change in the naval uniform during at least the first half of the 20th century. I was wearing much the same when I joined in 1948 with the exception

that the jacket in my day was a closer fit.

Was wondering whether the word Thoroughfare could have alluded to a photography service and if so it should be possible to have an idea when the photographer

was in business.

Like the other respondents, just love the whiskers! 

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You feel in days gone by that he would have been advertising cigarettes or ironically, razor blades.

 

I know nothing beyond the basics about naval uniform. Is there anything to be detected from the volume and/or the knot of the kerchief (sure that's the wrong term) or the lanyard? They look quite distinctive.

 

RM

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1 hour ago, rolt968 said:

You feel in days gone by that he would have been advertising cigarettes or ironically, razor blades.

 

I know nothing beyond the basics about naval uniform. Is there anything to be detected from the volume and/or the knot of the kerchief (sure that's the wrong term) or the lanyard? They look quite distinctive.

 

RM

In our outfit what you term as a kerchief was called a silk and it was much less bulky and the lanyard was worn more under the silk than on top of it.

  

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1 hour ago, rolt968 said:

You feel in days gone by that he would have been advertising cigarettes or ironically, razor blades.

 

Players.jpg

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Thanks GreyC -- Nice to have the photographer ID'd - appears to be him.

 

There is a story involved with 'Players Navy Cut' - originated in late 19thC - I have read it a few yrs back, its in one of my many Navy reference books, but doubt I could lay my hands on it!  The  HMS Hero sailor actually existed & gives his name. 

 

Thanks, Bryan

players 001.JPG

players 002.JPG

players 003.JPG

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The cigarette pack, I found in the very top of a cavity wall  in our house, mixed in with rubble. The house was built ca.1951.

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I know nothing beyond the basics about naval uniform. Is there anything to be detected from the volume and/or the knot of the kerchief (sure that's the wrong term) or the lanyard? They look quite distinctive.

 

David is correct, it is a SILK, it was originally worn in Victorian times kind of bundled together (ie not neatly ironed in place as it became later) & worn around the neck, under the blue collar, as it was bulky looking it did not look all that great, The LANYARD, (who's purpose was to carry a seaman's knife when working on rigging in the days of sail) was worn initially over the silk, but later tucked in behind the silk as it came over the shoulders(as in photo orriginally posted) with the loop at its base tucked in under the lop of the silk, below the tapes, which secured the silk to the tunic (called a jumper in later time, orriginally called a ''rock in VR times).

Sometime, in late VR period, the lanyard was just looped around the neck, see photo  of Curran below....

 

Around the time of 1WW the silk was folded neatly into an approx 2" width, so it looked much neater, when pressed it actually looked pretty good.

In future I will try to post a couple photos showing the VR silk\lanyard arrangement.  Have a look in the POSTCARD topic, I have shown some Seaman's photos, commencing around page 299.

 

Thanks, Bryan

 

AB Curran, an HMS Victoria survivor, this CDV taken approx mid 1890's, Victoria disaster was 22 Jun 1893.

Note how his lanyard is worn & tucked into his top left pocket, & how his silk is kind of bunched together.

Curran.jpg

 

 

Signalman Davis, photo taken just prior to 1WW, note the difference in silk & lanyard arrangement.

Davis, Signalman.JPG

Edited by RNCVR
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12 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

The cigarette pack, I found in the very top of a cavity wall  in our house, mixed in with rubble. The house was built ca.1951.

 

 

Amazing it survived! I thought it was a cigarette card.  Any of the cigarettes survive?

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6 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

 

 

Amazing it survived! I thought it was a cigarette card.  Any of the cigarettes survive?

No, just the packet.

I have a scan of the rest of it somewhere, I'll post later.

Found it when we were doing a loft conversion some years back.

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The Seaman's (Ratings) uniform was basically unchanged from the time of its inception during & after the Crimean war (1854-55),

the tunic (called in those times a FROCK) was very baggy & loose fitting as sailors in those days worked rigging & sails on board & a tight fitting frock & trousers would not have been much use to them, they needed room to move around, & they had to move very quickly working the sails & rigging.  Trousers were also quite baggy as well & worn frequently rolled up. The frock was worn under the top of the trousers the, trousers were secured at the top via buttons. Footwear was very seldom worn on board ships.

 

The uniform was virtually unchanged up to the 1WW period, the frock now being worn over the trousers, & the silk lanyard arrangement was much neater as seen in the Davis photo above. The top pocket had disappeared by then also.  This uniform remained pretty much unchanged into the post 2WW period.  I wore this kind of uniform when I came into Sea Cadets in 1959.  In the early 1950's the RCN moved into a tunic that had a front zipper & the sleeves were now pressed similar to a man's suit jacket. The material was much better quality than the old pullover tunics, that material being very coarse & very uncomfortable in warm weather.

 

If you go into the Postcards topic you will see some of the Seaman's uniforms I have posted there.

 

Thanks, Bryan

Edited by RNCVR
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5 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

No, just the packet.

I have a scan of the rest of it somewhere, I'll post later.

Found it when we were doing a loft conversion some years back.

 

Thats super, yes, pls post further photos, Amazing what you will find when you start taking older houses apart!

 

the Players tin above contained the rating's 1WW medals & a couple of his badges when I got it yrs ago.

I liked it so held onto it.   Have seen others over the years, size varies also.

Edited by RNCVR
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2 hours ago, RNCVR said:

 

Thats super, yes, pls post further photos, Amazing what you will find when you start taking older houses apart!

 

Here it is:

 

Players.jpg

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Very nice & fairly good condition considering where they were for many yrs.

 

Perhaps next you will discover a hidden packet of Woodbines!

 

Thanks,  Bryan

 

 

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Arrrrh, Woodbines, we used to be given freebie tins of 50 Woodbines during Korea. A cough in every drawback.

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