alantwo Posted 25 March , 2020 Share Posted 25 March , 2020 Another casualty this time with the 56th Brigade RFA at Cape Helles. The cropped image below is from a Service Record on Ancestry, but I'm unsure as to which Field Ambulance it refers. As always, my thanks in advance for any advice. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 25 March , 2020 Share Posted 25 March , 2020 Alan, It could be the 1/3 Lowland Field Ambulance {52nd Division}. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 25 March , 2020 Share Posted 25 March , 2020 Alan, Further to Alf's above suggestion the att.doc may well be useful 52nd Div 3rd Lowland FA.pdf regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 25 March , 2020 Share Posted 25 March , 2020 (edited) Rather less precise info in the above doc than could be hoped for, however note:- Page 17 - “On the 13th August we took over the evacuation of the sick and wounded along the line of the Achi Baba Nullah.” Reading on the author describes a Dressing Station at Skew Bridge and then says p.25 - “the field ambulance a mile or so farther on” p.26 - he is describing “Our main dressing station” which seems to be ¾ mile from the shore on the basin of land behind Morto Bay (an open space 2 X 2 miles, Sedd-el-Bhar on one side and a ridge dotted with fig & olive on the south) Page 31 - “During the last months our advanced dressing stations moved about as our division moved from one flank to another, but our main station remained in the same place throughout the whole campaign.” (my emphasis) Edited 25 March , 2020 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 26 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2020 Alf and Michael Thanks for taking the time to reply. My casualty was in C/56 and their position in early October was, according to the War Diary, 'on the southern slopes of Hill 200' which I take to mean Observation Hill on the 1/20,000 Krithia map, but if not let me know. If the Field Ambulance was 'a mile or so farther on' from Skew Bridge I don't think the two positions could have been that far apart. Presumably the main dressing station was then to the south and closer to Morto Bay. Michael - Many thanks for the download another article to read! Kind regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 28 March , 2020 Share Posted 28 March , 2020 On 26/03/2020 at 16:21, alantwo said: My casualty was in C/56 and their position in early October was, according to the War Diary, 'on the southern slopes of Hill 200' which I take to mean Observation Hill on the 1/20,000 Krithia map, but if not let me know. Alan, I am very uncertain about Hill 200 this is not a place-name I am familiar with and my look-ups for it have so far drawn a blank. Observation Hill was only 37 metres high and would not, to my mind qualify for the designation Hill 200 There is a point at map ref 17 Z 3 which is 66 metres and I wonder if this is not a better fit? On 26/03/2020 at 16:21, alantwo said: If the Field Ambulance was 'a mile or so farther on' from Skew Bridge I don't think the two positions could have been that far apart. The author in my previous link refers to the nearby artillery: “The Skew Bridge dressing station lies on low ground, and, while it is out of sight of the hill and the front line trenches, it is by no means immune from shells and bullets that come from that direction. The proximity of a large number of artillery batteries, that hug the admirable shelter the region affords, brings about our ears shrapnel and high explosive when the Turks' stores can spare them.” On 26/03/2020 at 16:21, alantwo said: Presumably the main dressing station was then to the south and closer to Morto Bay. If memory serves, I think that this sketch map is from the official medical history I shall continue scouting around re Hill 200 and get back to you if I find any firm indication of where it might have been regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 29 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2020 (edited) On 28/03/2020 at 15:02, michaeldr said: Alan, I am very uncertain about Hill 200 Michael Many thanks for your post, always helpful and appreciated. Thanks also for the sketch map I don't think I have seen that one before. I also found it difficult to find a 'Hill 200', there doesn't seem to be any reference to a hill of that name that I can find, but then again I'm no expert. I 'think' it may possibly have been mistaken for a 200 contour line which can be seen on the 1:40,000 Map of Gallipoli Sheet 1. Both images below are cropped from the WFA Mapping the Front - Gallipoli CD, image M-028218. Obviously I may be wrong. On 24th August the HQ 56th Brigade RFA, 'C' and 'D' Batteries landed at Cape Helles and on 25th the positions are given as 'Headquarters and C/56 in a valley East of Hill 200 about ¼ mile from ROMANO’S WELL. D/56 in front of a deep nullah North East of SOTIRI FARM' (from HQ 56th Brigade RFA War Diary).Sotiri Farm being Pink Farm. Image below is M-028218, Map of Krithia 1:20,000, from the aforementioned CD overlaid on Google Earth. Clearly C/56 could be further to the northeast in the valley but it makes more sense in the approximate position I've shown when the image is overlaid with the French Batteries, see below. On the night of 4th/5th September the War Diary indicates 'C' Battery were ordered to vacate their position to allow a French Battery to take up their position. 'C' Battery moved to the 'Southern slope of HILL 200, left of 13th Battery, 17th Brigade Royal Field Artillery.' There are two possibilities for French Batteries from the Mercardier Groupe that might fit the bill, these I have highlighted in a previous post elsewhere on the Forum. The positions of the 13th Battery, Right Section 90th Heavy Battery and 1st Australian Brigade have been plotted from a map within the CRA War Diary. The position of the 1st Australian Brigade is only for passing interest, B/56 took over 2No. 12 pounders from the Australians on 9th September in that position. The Sevki Pasha maps are outstanding in their detail and they include battery positions. The image below is from the same CD, M-012444, overlaid on Google Earth. Allowing for my inaccurate plotting above they do appear to be in the right area for the batteries mentioned. However if this proves not to be Hill 200, it blows my reasoning out of the water, but it will not be the first time! The 1:40,000 map of Gallipoli is not terribly accurate and somewhat difficult to overlay on Google Earth, however without adjustment and with the position of C/56 on 24th/25th August overlaid, I got the image below. It is evident this map is in accurate, not least of all that Observation Hill is 37m high, about 120' high rather than the 200' shown. I would be reasonably confident I have the right area for C/56 and thus this might be an explanation of how 'Hill 200' was misinterpreted. The map you attached in your previous post highlights an Advanced Dressing Station near Romano's Well, which would certainly place it near the ear bursting artillery units indicated. When you have time I would be pleased to have your thoughts. Best regards Alan Edited 30 March , 2020 by alantwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 30 March , 2020 Share Posted 30 March , 2020 (edited) Alan, I've had a chat with Mike Crane about this question and he thinks that your equating of Hill 200 with Observation Hill is most likely correct. He has given another example from the WFA map disc, MD 02238, which also has that '200' contour marked in exactly the same place. Interestingly, MD 02238 is titled in its bottom RH corner “Artillery Map of Gallipoli” Mike has also pointed out a third map, MA 03110, which too is titled Artillery Map. This map is undated as far as I can see, however it does indicate gun positions in the areas of interest to to you. Regarding the Field Ambulance, although only a sketch map, I think that the one from the Medical OH gives quite a good indication regarding the position near Morto Bay. The ground there is reasonably flat, it is has two wells close by, and it has convenient road access for the ambulance transport (motor & horse) which would take the injured to either the hospital above W Beach or to the piers at W Beach itself As you will recall from his talks at the RAF Club and the recent Northern Regional Conference, Mike's primary interest is the Krithia area and the 42nd Division. He has indicated for us where their Advanced Dressing station was near Romano's Well in June 1915, and it could easily be that when the LFA moved into that area, they simply took over that pre-existing position. Mike has marked this 'F' on the overlay below Best regards Michael edit to add: It would be remiss of me not to add here my thanks to Mike Crane for his time and insights on this Edited 30 March , 2020 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 30 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2020 Michael Thanks for your help and I would be grateful if you would pass on my regards and thanks to Mike. It is his fault that I started overlaying the maps, his talk at the GA Conference RAF Club a couple of years ago was really interesting and he was kind enough to help get me started. I have the Artillery maps on the CD but I hadn't realised they were there. Unfortunately the latter does not appear to be dated, but it will I'm sure it help to confirm some of the unit positions which are marked upon it. It also has one or two gun calibres indicated which will be helpful. The ADS identified by Mike can also be added to one of the map layers. My thanks again to you both. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 30 March , 2020 Share Posted 30 March , 2020 9 minutes ago, alantwo said: pass on my regards and thanks to Mike Will do, with pleasure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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