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Remembered Today:

41st Brigade, 14th (Light) Division, 7th Rifle Brigade - Looking for S/32223 Rmn Walter Brooks.


LCpl Lee Cope

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Thanks Stiletto! 

 

 It is quite a task, but I'm up to it and  I'm learning more and more all the time. Walters medal came into my possession 2x weeks ago after being found 40+ years ago in a metal scrap yard.

 

 Call it weird, but I've been researching my family tree for 8 years, and with this medal turning up, it's almost like he's ready to be found! He didn't give up on us, so as a veteran myself I wont give up on him.

 

 Thank you for all the help and advise to all those who've helped thus far, it's really appreciated. 

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Many thanks MBrockway,

 

 That was a very informative read, such a sorry state of affairs when facing the aftermath of all out war!

 

 Attached is a more updated version of the progress that I've made on the 7th Rifle Brigade (identified & unidentified) 10th - 16th October 1917 trench map.

 

I'm still currently trying to find out what Company the following men belonged too & sadly I cannot find any Company references on there service records and medal cards etc. on Ancestry.co.uk.

 

S/32234 Rmn Coakley, W - Rifle Brigade, (d) 10/10/1917, body found at grid: 28J 22 A 4 6 - Tyne Cot Cemetery

 

S/19881 Rfn King AE - Rifle Brigade, (d) 12/10/1917, body found at grid: 28J 16 C 9 0 - Hooge Crater Cemetery
S/8599 Cpl Bedwell, W - Rifle Brigade, (d) 12/10/1917, Body found at grid: 28J 16 C 9 1 - HOOGE CRATER CEMETERY

 

S/2070 LCPl Renyard, R - Rifle Brigade, (d) 16/10/1917, body found at grid J16 D 10 10 - Buttes Polygon Wood Cemetery

 

S/30683 Rfn Death, HA - Rif Brigade, (d) 16/10/1917, body found at grid: 28J 13 D 70 85 - RAILWAY DUGOUTS BURIAL GROUND
28951 Rfn Milligan, W - Rifle Brigade, (d) 16/10/1917, body found at grid: 28J 14 C 4 5 -  RAILWAY DUGOUTS BURIAL GROUND

 

C COMPANY

S/19881 Rmn King, A E - C Coy, Rifle Brigade, (d) 12/10/17, body found at grid: 28J 16 C 9 0 - Hooge Crater Cemetery
B/2128 Sgt Lawrence, C - C Coy, Rifle Brigade, (d) 12/10/1917, body found at grid: 28J 16 C 9 0  - Hooge Crater Cemetery

 

 I've also searched through CWGC and a lot of the identified men don't have concentration details. So I cannot see where the bodies were found... I've asked CWGC and they stated that they don't hold info for the "location found" of the bodies in question, so I wonder if anybody on here can assist with these grids?

 

Z/376 LCpl Barnes, W - Rifle Brigade, (d) 10/10/1917, body found at grid? - Tyne Cot Memorial
5/172 LCpl Cooke, HH - Rifle Brigade, (d) 10/10/1917, body found at grid? - Tyne Cot Memorial
S/23510 Rfn Woodman, WE - Rifle Brigade, (d) 10/10/1917, body found at grid? - Tyne Cot Memorial

 
S/3549 Rfn Bagshaw, A - Rifle Brigade, (d) 11/10/1917, body found at grid? - Tyne Cot Memorial
S/23410 Rfn Stilling, W - Rifle Brigade, (d) 11/10/1917, body found at grid ? - Tyn Cot Memorial

 

S/27653 Rfn Allen, WC - Fifle Brigade, (d) 12/10/1917, body found at grid? - GODEWAERSVELDE BRITISH CEMETERY

S/27968 Rfn Croxford, C - Rifle Brigade, (d) 12/10/1917, body found at grid? - TYNE COT MEMORIAL 
S/5514 LCpl Francis, S - Rifle Brigade, (d) 12/10/1917, body found at grid ?

B/826 Rfn Pratt HB - Rifle Brigade, (d) 12/10/1917, body found at grid? - VOORMEZEELE ENCLOSURES NO.1 AND
B/1361 LCpl Voice, CT - Rifle Brigade, (d) 12/10/1917, body found at grid? - TYNE COT MEMORIAL

 

6375 Rfn Bryer, LM- Rifle Brigade, (d) 13/10/1917, body found at grid? 
Z/102  Rfn Lafford, GV - Rifle Brigade, (d) 13/10/1917, body found at grid?  - GODEWAERSVELDE BRITISH CEMETERY
S/28957 LCpl White JC - Rifle Brigade, (d) 13/10/1917, body found at grid? - TYNE COT MEMORIAL

 

S/31223 Rfn Appleton, D - Rifle Brigade, (d) 14/10/1917, body found at grid? - GODEWAERSVELDE BRITISH CEMETERY
S/23797 Rfn Standing, J - Rifle Brigade, (d) 14/10/1917, body found at grid? - TYNE COT MEMORIAL

 

S/8154 LSgt Burns, T - Rifle Brigade, (d) 15/10/1917, body found at grid? - TYNE COT MEMORIAL
S/28579 Rfn Fuller, FH - Rifle Brigade, (d) 15/10/1917, body found at grid?  TYNE COT MEMORIAL
B/20013 Rfn Mynard, FA - Rifle Brigade, (d) 15/10/1917, body found at grid? - TYNE COT MEMORIAL
B/203058 Rfn Sefton, H - Rifle Brigade, (d) 15/10/1917, body found at grid? - TYNE COT MEMORIAL
S/13704 Rfn Towersey, TG - Rifle Brigade, (d) 15/10/1917, body found at grid? - TYNE COT MEMORIAL


B/203596 Rfn Barker, A - Rifle Brigade, (d) 16/10/1917, body found at grid? - TYNE COT MEMORIAL
S/32223 Rfn Brooks, W - Rifle Brigade, (d) 16/10/1917, body found at grid? - TYNE COT MEMORIAL
S/31245 Rfn Burgoyne, AH - Rifle Brigade, (d) 16/10/1917, body found at grid? - TYNE COT MEMORIAL
S/16857 Rfn Wilkins, W - Rifle Brigade, (d) 16/10/1917, body found at grid? - TYNE COT MEMORIAL

 

 Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

S32223 Rmn Walter Brooks. 10.10.1917.jpg

Edited by LCpl Lee Cope
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7 hours ago, LCpl Lee Cope said:

 I've also searched through CWGC and a lot of the identified men don't have concentration details. So I cannot see where the bodies were found... I've asked CWGC and they stated that they don't hold info for the "location found" of the bodies in question, so I wonder if anybody on here can assist with these grids?

 

Z/376 LCpl Barnes, W - Rifle Brigade, (d) 10/10/1917, body found at grid? - Tyne Cot Memorial
5/172 LCpl Cooke, HH - Rifle Brigade, (d) 10/10/1917, body found at grid? - Tyne Cot Memorial
S/23510 Rfn Woodman, WE - Rifle Brigade, (d) 10/10/1917, body found at grid? - Tyne Cot Memorial

etc

 Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

All of the soldiers commemorated on the Tyne Cot Memorial have no known grave, so none will have a "location found"

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Ok, thanks MBrockway, thought I'd ask  just in case somebody was holding on to some documents that hadn't yet been revealed and could help.

 

 Is there any truth to Peter Barton finding these casualty documents from WW1? I think Ivd just looked at the database under Brooks, but nothing for Walter. 

 

https://www.genealogyblog.com/?p=1907

Edited by LCpl Lee Cope
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Lee,

 

Allen, Walter Collis, S/27653 actually died of wounds at the Casualty Clearing Station at Godewaersvelde 12/10/17. GSW to the chest, and has a named headstone in the British Cemetery there.

 

Andy

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14 hours ago, stiletto_33853 said:

Lee,

 

Allen, Walter Collis, S/27653 actually died of wounds at the Casualty Clearing Station at Godewaersvelde 12/10/17. GSW to the chest, and has a named headstone in the British Cemetery there.

 

Andy

Thanks Stiletto,

 

 That's an oversight on my part, I've now separated the Tyne Cot memorial (no body found) from the few (body's found) that I'd mistakenly mixed in.

 

 I've received a reply from the International Red Cross and they've provided some useful info on how they had involvement in helping loved ones find their missing men.

 

 Regards,

 

 Lee. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello!

 

 Today I received Walters Victory Medal! It was found in a scrap heap over 40x years ago and has now come into my possession.

 

 The original ribbon was missing, so I've had it replaced, but the actual medal is in great shape! I just need to locate his Great War Medal now! 

 

 All new and shiny! 

 

91767730_208803373869339_1919729666961178624_o.jpg

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  • 2 years later...

Hello,

 I hope that everybody is well and in good health.

 

 I'm still on the hunt for records and any clues that may help locate Walter Brooks. A while back I found a file on ancestry that refers to soldiers affects and family etc.

 

 I'd like to know more about Plug Street or Ploegstreet as it's referred to on maps. In this document it states the following:

 

 Officially accepted (KIA) as on 16/10/1917 Plug Street.

 

 Does this mean that Walter Brooks 'could' have died at Plugstreet? or is this where it was officially documented i.e.. paperwork. 

 

 Any help getting clarity on this would be very much appreciated.

 

Pte Walter Brooks .jpg

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  • LCpl Lee Cope changed the title to 41st Brigade, 14th (Light) Division, 7th Rifle Brigade - Looking for S/32223 Rmn Walter Brooks.

Hello,

 

 I've been out of the WW1 research game for a while and I'm struggling with the CWGC website.

 I used to find it easy a few years ago, but I think something has changed and I cannot find any unidentified soldiers on their database; particularly the concentration documents for The 7th Battalion Rifle Brigade soldiers, who died between 10/10/1917 and 16/10/1917.

These are the ones I'm interested in and any help in directing me towards the images, would be very much appreciated.:

XLVIII. C. 2 Soldier Rifle Brigade 28.J.21.b.35.40 Belgium - TYNE COT CEMETERY
LV. B. 5 Soldier Rifle Brigade 28.J.21.d.5.9 Belgium - TYNE COT CEMETERY
         
         
LVII. C. 13 Soldier Rifle Brigade 28.J.21.b.16.70 Belgium - TYNE COT CEMETERY
LVII. E. 44 Soldier Rifle Brigade 28.J.21.b.96.80 Belgium - TYNE COT CEMETERY
Enclosure No.6 IV. E. 7 Soldier Rifle Brigade 28.J.16.c.25.15 Belgium - BEDFORD HOUSE CEMETERY
LVII. B. 31 Soldier Rifle Brigade 28.J.16.c.49.27 Belgium - TYNE COT CEMETERY
         
         
LXIII. K. 8 Soldier Rifle Brigade 28.J.16.c.8.3 Belgium - TYNE COT CEMETERY
         
XIII. A. 13 Soldier Rifle Brigade 28.J.16.c.50.40 Belgium - HOOGE CRATER CEMETERY
       
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
       
         
         
 
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
Edited by LCpl Lee Cope
incorrect spelling
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Doesn't help your quest but may be useful for the file?

Burton Observer 19/10/18

chrome_screenshot_1668257030402.png.86a5965391500c263f69649297d1c8aa.png

And one of those odd scraps from another man's file, indexed by Findmypast 

Forgive me for stating the obvious but this is his Company at the RB Depot and NOT subsequently with 7th Bn.  

Winchester, Depot PartII Orders:

chrome_screenshot_1668257315990.png.a5f8feaf23f19d331d63b5fb1f970f79.png

Charlie

Edited by charlie962
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Hello Charlie,

 

 Thank you so much, I've never seen those before. Your help is very much appreciated and now I have an enlistment date for Walter Brooks. 

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Hello, I've noticed that sometimes there's newspaper photos of missing soldiers.

How best could I search for my Walter Brooks?

In a previous post Charlie962 sent a photo of an article from the Burton Observer in 1917, stating that Walter had been KIA.

Surely, there must have been images of missing soldiers prior to that? 

Any help would be very much appreciated.

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Hello,

 I've used a map (from a previous post) showing the location of the 7th BTN Rifle Brigade in Oct 1917 and added what I 'propose' to be their trench location. By also using a present day map overlay, I've also been able to see the names of the farmhouses located within that area.

 I've emailed CWGC in the hope that I can obtain the concentration documents for the 4x RB soldiers, who I believe 'could' be Walter Brooks. I'm still encountering trouble viewing them on the CWGC website. 

I've also enquired as to how I could go about listing myself as a potential NOK for any future RB soldiers remains that are located within my area of interest. I'd like to think that DNA testing takes place?

Is there anything else that I could possibly do in order to improve my chances of finding Walter? 

 Any assistance or advise would be very much appreciated.

 

Where's Walter.png

Edited by LCpl Lee Cope
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Hello,

 Over the past few years I've been researching my granduncle S/32223 Rmn Walter Brooks, who served with the 7th Rifle Brigade and was sadly KIA on the 16th October 1917 during Passchendaele (Third Battle of Ypres).

 I've listed another post under Walters name and thanks to the extremely helpful members of this page, I've made significant progress in many different areas.

 However, I'm now at the point where I have four potential bodies that were recovered in the location of Walters trench upon the night of the 16/10/1917 and it's been slow going attempting to find out more from the concentration document scans on the CWGC website.

Are there any 7th Rifle Brigade forums, websites or research museum facilities that I can contact/use in order to discover more? A newspaper photo of Walter, as I assume that there could have been one, would be amazing.

 Any further assistance in this matter would be very much appreciated. 

Where's Walter.png

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  • Admin

Lee, I’ve split this into your existing thread. It’s not a great idea to put multiple requests on different  threads as it leads to confusion and duplication of answers and members research. 

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  • 5 months later...

Great news! I've recieved a reply from the Passchendaele archives and they've created a page for Walter!

It means a great deal to me that my great granduncle is never forgotten again. 

I've discovered a great deal about my ancestors, but not having photos of those who served and sacrificed their lives for their country makes me sad.

Hopefully one day a photo of Walter will turn up somewhere. 

 

https://archives.passchendaele.be/en/soldier/6484

Edited by LCpl Lee Cope
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  • 5 months later...
On 12/11/2022 at 12:58, charlie962 said:

Doesn't help your quest but may be useful for the file?

Burton Observer 19/10/18

chrome_screenshot_1668257030402.png.86a5965391500c263f69649297d1c8aa.png

And one of those odd scraps from another man's file, indexed by Findmypast 

Forgive me for stating the obvious but this is his Company at the RB Depot and NOT subsequently with 7th Bn.  

Winchester, Depot PartII Orders:

chrome_screenshot_1668257315990.png.a5f8feaf23f19d331d63b5fb1f970f79.png

Charlie

Hello, I hope that all is well and you're in good health. I'm intermittently looking into a few things regarding Walter and I've come back to this newspaper image that you've shared. 

 

 In your opinion, would you say that the dates upon this image are the exact dates that Walter enlisted into the Rifle Brigade. I ask because, I'm under the impression that Walters regimental number was issued a lot earlier.

 

I'm trying to ascertain exactly when Walter was enlisted an deployed. It would be a great help to know what action he was involved in.

 

 Your assistance, as always, is greatly appreciated. 

ca2313cb-835a-4be1-8f4e-c5bece3f5297.jpeg

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34 minutes ago, LCpl Lee Cope said:

would you say that the dates upon this image are the exact dates that Walter enlisted into the Rifle Brigade. I ask because, I'm under the impression that Walters regimental number was issued a lot earlier.

Hello again 

The bit of paper is partII orders so should be correct.

The Soldiers Effects ledger on Ancestry shows a gratuity paid of 3pounds which implies less than a year's service at the time he died.

Why do you think the number might have been issued earlier? 

Charlie

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30 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Hello again 

The bit of paper is partII orders so should be correct.

The Soldiers Effects ledger on Ancestry shows a gratuity paid of 3pounds which implies less than a year's service at the time he died.

Why do you think the number might have been issued earlier? 

Charlie

I recall, a long time ago, being shown when army prefix numbers were issued. However, I may have been misinformed or misunderstood the information. 

 

 Any idea when his prefix number would have been issued? And would it fall in line with the 02nd May 1917?

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29 minutes ago, LCpl Lee Cope said:

I recall, a long time ago, being shown when army prefix numbers were issued. However, I may have been misinformed or misunderstood the information. 

 

 Any idea when his prefix number would have been issued? And would it fall in line with the 02nd May 1917?

His number would be issued within a day or so of joining the Depot 3/5/17.

Beware of duplicate series and prefixes. I'm happy that May 1917 is correct. You could look for surviving service records for 'near numbers' got further confirmation.

Charlie

Edited by charlie962
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