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Jon Wickes

Can anyone help me with information and any pictures of my great Grandad Henry Thomas Davis 18th Rifles traveled to India Rangoon 1915 or 16 served in Mesopotamia lived in Camberwell London in 1914 Albany Road.

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PRC

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

It doesn’t look like there are any surviving service records for him, which is the norm – the vast majority were destroyed in a fire at the warehouse during the blitz.

 

In that case the starting point for research is a simple document, his Medal Index Card (MiC). These were created at the records office post-war to manage the issue of medals via the Service Medal Rolls, which could run to over a thousand pages.

 

The MiC for Henry T Davis shows he was originally service number 330 and then 200314. Unlike more recent conflicts when each soldier has a unique service number, all units would have had a man with service number 330. In part to address that at the start of 1917 units like the 18th Battalion Rifle Brigade which were part of the Territorial Force had all their other ranks issued with a new service number. This was when he became service number 200314. This tells us he was with then prior to the start of 1917 and indeed given how low his number was, may even have been a pre-war Territorial.

 

The MiC also shows he only received the British War Medal. That confirms he served overseas but only in a Garrison capacity, not in an active Theatre of War like Mesopotamia. (Of course he could have gone there after the armistice with the Turks in September\October 1918).

 

To receive just that medal he would have had to arrive overseas at some point on or after the 1st January 1916, which rules out him being in India or Mesopotamia in 1915.

 

The Service Medal Rolls for the British War Medal for the Rifle Brigade are normally amongst the more detailed in terms of giving dates served overseas. They can be seen only on Ancestry. If you don’t already subscribe and live in the UK, your local library is likely to have a subscription.

 

Our parent site, the Long, Long Trail has this to say about the 18th Battalion, Rifle Brigade.

 

Battalions of the Territorial Force

 

18th (London); 19th (Western), 20th (Northern), 21st (Midland), 22nd (Wessex & Welsh), 23rd (North Western) and 24th (Home Counties) Battalions

Formed in accordance with an Army Council Instruction on 29 November 1915. The Bns were made up of supernumerary TF Companies, formed from National Reservists who were used for guarding vulnerable points in Great Britain. The Bns were posted for Garrison duty overseas in 1916. The 18th, 23rd and 24th went to India; 19th and 20th to Egypt. The 21st went to India via Egypt, and the 22nd Salonika via Egypt.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-rifle-brigade-1914-1918/

 

As to a picture your best bet is always local newspapers. Pictures weren’t automatically taken for inclusion in service records even if they had survived, and the full Battalion type photographs was more of a peace-time activity rather than war-time. Use of cameras by other ranks was also restricted, although I suspect the regime in India was a bit more relaxed. Pictures taken by Officers are a bit more common but of course that depends on them surviving and the individuals photographed being identified.

 

While the subscription genealogy sites will normally have an option that includes access to an online British Newspaper Archive (BNA), you will usually find your local library if you are in the UK will have access to the BNA directly.

 

Best I can do – hopefully someone with subscription access to the likes of Ancestry \ FindMyPast \ BNA and \ or are more knowledgeable about the Rifle Brigade will be along soon.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

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George Rayner

Welcome to the forum

He's listed as being

 

overseas from 5-1-16 to to 3-6-19. This is on Ancestry

 

George

 

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Jon Wickes

I just found something on Ancestry it says he was awarded 14 15 Star war medal and victory messy also his name address plus Mesopotamia Gaza and that he saw a lot of fighting it's a write up for all who fought but I can not upload it on here.

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Jon Wickes
1 hour ago, George Rayner said:

Welcome to the forum

He's listed as being

 

overseas from 5-1-16 to to 3-6-19. This is on Ancestry

 

George

 

Thank you for this sir.

2 hours ago, PRC said:

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

It doesn’t look like there are any surviving service records for him, which is the norm – the vast majority were destroyed in a fire at the warehouse during the blitz.

 

In that case the starting point for research is a simple document, his Medal Index Card (MiC). These were created at the records office post-war to manage the issue of medals via the Service Medal Rolls, which could run to over a thousand pages.

 

The MiC for Henry T Davis shows he was originally service number 330 and then 200314. Unlike more recent conflicts when each soldier has a unique service number, all units would have had a man with service number 330. In part to address that at the start of 1917 units like the 18th Battalion Rifle Brigade which were part of the Territorial Force had all their other ranks issued with a new service number. This was when he became service number 200314. This tells us he was with then prior to the start of 1917 and indeed given how low his number was, may even have been a pre-war Territorial.

 

The MiC also shows he only received the British War Medal. That confirms he served overseas but only in a Garrison capacity, not in an active Theatre of War like Mesopotamia. (Of course he could have gone there after the armistice with the Turks in September\October 1918).

 

To receive just that medal he would have had to arrive overseas at some point on or after the 1st January 1916, which rules out him being in India or Mesopotamia in 1915.

 

The Service Medal Rolls for the British War Medal for the Rifle Brigade are normally amongst the more detailed in terms of giving dates served overseas. They can be seen only on Ancestry. If you don’t already subscribe and live in the UK, your local library is likely to have a subscription.

 

Our parent site, the Long, Long Trail has this to say about the 18th Battalion, Rifle Brigade.

 

Battalions of the Territorial Force

 

18th (London); 19th (Western), 20th (Northern), 21st (Midland), 22nd (Wessex & Welsh), 23rd (North Western) and 24th (Home Counties) Battalions

Formed in accordance with an Army Council Instruction on 29 November 1915. The Bns were made up of supernumerary TF Companies, formed from National Reservists who were used for guarding vulnerable points in Great Britain. The Bns were posted for Garrison duty overseas in 1916. The 18th, 23rd and 24th went to India; 19th and 20th to Egypt. The 21st went to India via Egypt, and the 22nd Salonika via Egypt.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-rifle-brigade-1914-1918/

 

As to a picture your best bet is always local newspapers. Pictures weren’t automatically taken for inclusion in service records even if they had survived, and the full Battalion type photographs was more of a peace-time activity rather than war-time. Use of cameras by other ranks was also restricted, although I suspect the regime in India was a bit more relaxed. Pictures taken by Officers are a bit more common but of course that depends on them surviving and the individuals photographed being identified.

 

While the subscription genealogy sites will normally have an option that includes access to an online British Newspaper Archive (BNA), you will usually find your local library if you are in the UK will have access to the BNA directly.

 

Best I can do – hopefully someone with subscription access to the likes of Ancestry \ FindMyPast \ BNA and \ or are more knowledgeable about the Rifle Brigade will be along soon.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Thank you so much sir.

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PRC

For a rough idea of where he might have been stationed I took a look at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website for the final resting place of the men who died while serving with the 18th Battalion. There are 44 in total.

 

Selected highlights include:-

 

Rifleman 579 Arthur Abraham Borrowman, died aged 43 on the 30th April 1916. Originally buried Rangoon Cantonment Cemetery, Burma, subsequently moved Rangoon War Cemetery.

 

Rifleman 853 R F Harris, died 13/07/1916. Now buried Rangoon War Cemetery.

 

Rifleman 566 Walter Beckett, died aged 45 13/11/1916. Buried Port Blair Cemetery, Andaman Islands.

 

Rifleman 200235 James Westbrook, died aged 61 21/07/1917. Now at Taukkyan War Cemetery, Myanmar, (Burma), originally buried Maymyo Cemetery, Mandalay Region, Burma.

 

Rifleman 200864 J Pearse, died 23/11/1917. Originally buried Diamond Island off the mouth of the River Irrawaddy. CWGC grave registration document notes the island had a Wireless Telegraph Station.

 

Rifleman 200437 A.J Smith. Died 23/12/1917. Now buried Rangoon War Cemetery.

 

Lieutenant R. Grist, Died 15/05/1918. Now buried Rangoon War Cemetery.

 

Rifleman 200416 James Frederick Rayment. Died aged 46, 10/12/918. Now buried Rangoon War Cemetery.

 

Rifleman 200604 Harry Knowlson. Died aged 51 200604, 19/03/1919. Originally buried Maymyo Cemetery, Mandalay Region, Burma.

 

Rifleman 200231 J Watts. Died 01/05/1919. Originally buried Pyinmana, Burma.

 

So doesn’t seem likely the Battalion served at any point in Mesopotamia.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Jon Wickes

This is i

6 minutes ago, PRC said:

For a rough idea of where he might have been stationed I took a look at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website for the final resting place of the men who died while serving with the 18th Battalion. There are 44 in total.

 

Selected highlights include:-

 

Rifleman 579 Arthur Abraham Borrowman, died aged 43 on the 30th April 1916. Originally buried Rangoon Cantonment Cemetery, Burma, subsequently moved Rangoon War Cemetery.

 

Rifleman 853 R F Harris, died 13/07/1916. Now buried Rangoon War Cemetery.

 

Rifleman 566 Walter Beckett, died aged 45 13/11/1916. Buried Port Blair Cemetery, Andaman Islands.

 

Rifleman 200235 James Westbrook, died aged 61 21/07/1917. Now at Taukkyan War Cemetery, Myanmar, (Burma), originally buried Maymyo Cemetery, Mandalay Region, Burma.

 

Rifleman 200864 J Pearse, died 23/11/1917. Originally buried Diamond Island off the mouth of the River Irrawaddy. CWGC grave registration document notes the island had a Wireless Telegraph Station.

 

Rifleman 200437 A.J Smith. Died 23/12/1917. Now buried Rangoon War Cemetery.

 

Lieutenant R. Grist, Died 15/05/1918. Now buried Rangoon War Cemetery.

 

Rifleman 200416 James Frederick Rayment. Died aged 46, 10/12/918. Now buried Rangoon War Cemetery.

 

Rifleman 200604 Harry Knowlson. Died aged 51 200604, 19/03/1919. Originally buried Maymyo Cemetery, Mandalay Region, Burma.

 

Rifleman 200231 J Watts. Died 01/05/1919. Originally buried Pyinmana, Burma.

 

So doesn’t seem likely the Battalion served at any point in Mesopotamia.

 

Cheers,

Peter

This is very interesting indeed lots of reading and investigating to be done. Thank you very much Sir.

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Jon Wickes

He lived 87 C Albany Road Camberwell on Ancestry for the brief of what he had done and been it was down as 870 Albany Road Camberwell SE5 mentions his Medals and Mesopotania I also have postcards from Rangoon Port Said and Egypt sent home to his wife and kids verifying his address.

 National Roll of the Great War as H.T. Davis. (Image attached courtesy Geners Reunited)

1583934368272.jpg

Edited by Jon Wickes
Add in infi

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Jon Wickes
3 hours ago, PRC said:

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

It doesn’t look like there are any surviving service records for him, which is the norm – the vast majority were destroyed in a fire at the warehouse during the blitz.

 

In that case the starting point for research is a simple document, his Medal Index Card (MiC). These were created at the records office post-war to manage the issue of medals via the Service Medal Rolls, which could run to over a thousand pages.

 

The MiC for Henry T Davis shows he was originally service number 330 and then 200314. Unlike more recent conflicts when each soldier has a unique service number, all units would have had a man with service number 330. In part to address that at the start of 1917 units like the 18th Battalion Rifle Brigade which were part of the Territorial Force had all their other ranks issued with a new service number. This was when he became service number 200314. This tells us he was with then prior to the start of 1917 and indeed given how low his number was, may even have been a pre-war Territorial.

 

The MiC also shows he only received the British War Medal. That confirms he served overseas but only in a Garrison capacity, not in an active Theatre of War like Mesopotamia. (Of course he could have gone there after the armistice with the Turks in September\October 1918).

 

To receive just that medal he would have had to arrive overseas at some point on or after the 1st January 1916, which rules out him being in India or Mesopotamia in 1915.

 

The Service Medal Rolls for the British War Medal for the Rifle Brigade are normally amongst the more detailed in terms of giving dates served overseas. They can be seen only on Ancestry. If you don’t already subscribe and live in the UK, your local library is likely to have a subscription.

 

Our parent site, the Long, Long Trail has this to say about the 18th Battalion, Rifle Brigade.

 

Battalions of the Territorial Force

 

18th (London); 19th (Western), 20th (Northern), 21st (Midland), 22nd (Wessex & Welsh), 23rd (North Western) and 24th (Home Counties) Battalions

Formed in accordance with an Army Council Instruction on 29 November 1915. The Bns were made up of supernumerary TF Companies, formed from National Reservists who were used for guarding vulnerable points in Great Britain. The Bns were posted for Garrison duty overseas in 1916. The 18th, 23rd and 24th went to India; 19th and 20th to Egypt. The 21st went to India via Egypt, and the 22nd Salonika via Egypt.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-rifle-brigade-1914-1918/

 

As to a picture your best bet is always local newspapers. Pictures weren’t automatically taken for inclusion in service records even if they had survived, and the full Battalion type photographs was more of a peace-time activity rather than war-time. Use of cameras by other ranks was also restricted, although I suspect the regime in India was a bit more relaxed. Pictures taken by Officers are a bit more common but of course that depends on them surviving and the individuals photographed being identified.

 

While the subscription genealogy sites will normally have an option that includes access to an online British Newspaper Archive (BNA), you will usually find your local library if you are in the UK will have access to the BNA directly.

 

Best I can do – hopefully someone with subscription access to the likes of Ancestry \ FindMyPast \ BNA and \ or are more knowledgeable about the Rifle Brigade will be along soon.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Fantastic thank you Sir

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PRC
3 hours ago, Jon Wickes said:

He lived 87 C Albany Road Camberwell on Ancestry for the brief of what he had done and been it was down as 870 Albany Road Camberwell SE5 mentions his Medals and Mesopotania I also have postcards from Rangoon Port Said and Egypt sent home to his wife and kids verifying his address.

 

I see you mean his entry in the National Roll of the Great War as H.T. Davis. (Image attached courtesy Geners Reunited).

 

1990248484_HTDavisNationalRollofHonoursourcedGenesReunited.jpg.d97fd8a7dc341e8b65dfa95387cc4552.jpg

 

This was a private publication consisting of pieces that, as far as I’m aware, were submitted by the person concerned or their family and was taken by the publisher at face value. They shouldn’t be taken as gospel but nor can they be entirely disregarded.

 

His journey out and back would have been via the Suez Canal, so Port Said, Egypt and the Rangoon postcard would also seem to tie in.

 

The 18th Battalion wasn’t formed until the 29th November 1915, and so he may have been sent out almost straight away but even if they stopped off in Mesopotamia on the way out, (and may even have originally been intended for there), his unit was never officially on the establishment for that Theatre of War and so he doesn’t qualify for the 1914/15 Star and the Victory Medal. Of course many men were aggrieved at not qualifying for medals and even went so far as to “self-award”. Don’t know if that happened here – certainly the 18th Battalion didn’t see any fighting. Possibly the 18th Battalion was the one he ended up with on the move to India in April 1919.

 

However I’ve had a quick look at the Medal Index Card entries at the National Archive and can’t see an alternative candidate for a Henry Davis who served with the Rifle Brigade other than those who started off in France. And a search for 330 Rifle Brigade and 200314 Rifle Brigade doesn’t bring up any likely candidates where the surname had been mis-spelt or mis-transcribed. As the 18th were the first Territorial Battalion of the Rifle Brigade they would also have been the ones allocated new service numbers in the 200000 range.

 

Do the postcards also include his service number?

 

I’n sure you’re aware but there are members of the Davis family recorded boarding at 87c Albany Road, Camberwell on the 1911 Census of England & Wales. Head of them is Robert Davis, a married Painters Labourer, aged 63 and born Lambeth. He states he has been married 37 years and has had 5 children of which 3 were then still alive. Living with him is his married “daughter”, (presumably daughter-in-law), Alice Ada Davis, (aged 29, born Banbury, Oxford) and probably Alices’ children, shown as Roberts’ grandchildren, Henry Davis, (aged 3, born Camberwell) and Dorothy Davis, (aged 1, born Southwark).

 

Alice is stated to have been married 4 years and to have had 3 children of which 2 were then still alive.

 

Head of the household is a 57 year old widow Ellen Day who has two of her own adult children living with her and two grandchildren.

 

Going back to the 1901 Census of England & Wales the 53 year old Robert Davis, a Builders Labourer born Lambeth, was recorded as the married head of one of the households at 17 Charleston Street, Newington, London. Living with him are wife Jane, (47), and sons Henry T, (24, Builders Labourer), and Lewis O., (18, Railway Porter) – all born Lambeth.  They also have a boarder.

 

The marriage of  Henry Thomas Davis to an Alice Ada Day was recorded in the Southwark Civil Registration District in Q1, 1907.

 

On the 1911 Census there is a married 32 year old Henry Davis, both Lambeth who was recorded on his employers premises on the night the census was taken. He worked as a Night Gate Porter at an address on St James Road, Battersea, which I believed was the Work House Hospital.

 

If Henry and Ada had any more children during the time he would have been serving, then the birth certificate under fathers’ occupation will show as a mimimum his Rank and the Regiment \ Corps he was serving with – and sometimes much more. This might help identify if he served with another unit.

 

He would also be likely to appear on the Absent Voters Lists for 1918 & 1919, however that would be a question of knowing roughly where he might normallyhave been living. See https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

As you have the postcards hopefully the last ones will be closer in time to 1918 and so a good indication of the address used for those electoral registers.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

PS - going forward you don't need to quote in full in your replies everytime. I check the threads I have contributed to by using the Activity option in the bar at the top, others "follow" threads or follow the All GWF activity screen,so if someone can help you will get a response. Good luck with your search :-)

Edited by PRC
Add PS

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Jon Wickes
30 minutes ago, PRC said:

 

I see you mean his entry in the National Roll of the Great War as H.T. Davis. (Image attached courtesy Geners Reunited).

 

1990248484_HTDavisNationalRollofHonoursourcedGenesReunited.jpg.d97fd8a7dc341e8b65dfa95387cc4552.jpg

 

This was a private publication consisting of pieces that, as far as I’m aware, were submitted by the person concerned or their family and was taken by the publisher at face value. They shouldn’t be taken as gospel but nor can they be entirely disregarded.

 

His journey out and back would have been via the Suez Canal, so Port Said, Egypt and the Rangoon postcard would also seem to tie in.

 

The 18th Battalion wasn’t formed until the 29th November 1915, and so he may have been sent out almost straight away but even if they stopped off in Mesopotamia on the way out, (and may even have originally been intended for there), his unit was never officially on the establishment for that Theatre of War and so he doesn’t qualify for the 1914/15 Star and the Victory Medal. Of course many men were aggrieved at not qualifying for medals and even went so far as to “self-award”. Don’t know if that happened here – certainly the 18th Battalion didn’t see any fighting. Possibly the 18th Battalion was the one he ended up with on the move to India in April 1919.

 

However I’ve had a quick look at the Medal Index Card entries at the National Archive and can’t see an alternative candidate for a Henry Davis who served with the Rifle Brigade other than those who started off in France. And a search for 330 Rifle Brigade and 200314 Rifle Brigade doesn’t bring up any likely candidates where the surname had been mis-spelt or mis-transcribed. As the 18th were the first Territorial Battalion of the Rifle Brigade they would also have been the ones allocated new service numbers in the 200000 range.

 

Do the postcards also include his service number?

 

I’n sure you’re aware but there are members of the Davis family recorded boarding at 87c Albany Road, Camberwell on the 1911 Census of England & Wales. Head of them is Robert Davis, a married Painters Labourer, aged 63 and born Lambeth. He states he has been married 37 years and has had 5 children of which 3 were then still alive. Living with him is his married “daughter”, (presumably daughter-in-law), Alice Ada Davis, (aged 29, born Banbury, Oxford) and probably Alices’ children, shown as Roberts’ grandchildren, Henry Davis, (aged 3, born Camberwell) and Dorothy Davis, (aged 1, born Southwark).

 

Alice is stated to have been married 4 years and to have had 3 children of which 2 were then still alive.

 

Head of the household is a 57 year old widow Ellen Day who has two of her own adult children living with her and two grandchildren.

 

Going back to the 1901 Census of England & Wales the 53 year old Robert Davis, a Builders Labourer born Lambeth, was recorded as the married head of one of the households at 17 Charleston Street, Newington, London. Living with him are wife Jane, (47), and sons Henry T, (24, Builders Labourer), and Lewis O., (18, Railway Porter) – all born Lambeth.  They also have a boarder.

 

The marriage of  Henry Thomas Davis to an Alice Ada Day was recorded in the Southwark Civil Registration District in Q1, 1907.

 

On the 1911 Census there is a married 32 year old Henry Davis, both Lambeth who was recorded on his employers premises on the night the census was taken. He worked as a Night Gate Porter at an address on St James Road, Battersea, which I believed was the Work House Hospital.

 

If Henry and Ada had any more children during the time he would have been serving, then the birth certificate under fathers’ occupation will show as a mimimum his Rank and the Regiment \ Corps he was serving with – and sometimes much more. This might help identify if he served with another unit.

 

He would also be likely to appear on the Absent Voters Lists for 1918 & 1919, however that would be a question of knowing roughly where he might normallyhave been living. See https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

As you have the postcards hopefully the last ones will be closer in time to 1918 and so a good indication of the address used for those electoral registers.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

PS - going forward you don't need to quote in full in your replies everytime. I check the threads I have contributed to by using the Activity option in the bar at the top, others "follow" threads or follow the All GWF activity screen,so if someone can help you will get a response. Good luck with your search :-)

Thank you very much for this, I Have more info now He was actually in The Rifle Brigade Prince Consorts Own. Unit T.F. Company W0329 this may or may not change things.

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Jon Wickes

 I Have more info now He was actually in The Rifle Brigade Prince Consorts Own. Unit T.F. Company W0329 this may or may not change things.

 

 

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PRC
7 hours ago, George Rayner said:

overseas from 5-1-16 to to 3-6-19. This is on Ancestry

 

George,

 

I take it that's from the entry for him on the Rifle Brigade Service Medal Roll for his British War Medal. Could I trouble you to confirm the Battalions he is shown as serving overseas with.

 

Thanks,

Peter

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George Rayner

18th Rifles only from memory.

 

Will check on Ancestry

image.png.84a551c4400c9db41d4e51c61fc66c74.png

George

Edited by George Rayner

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George Rayner

There is also a Pension card reference...but I don't subscribe to that

Name: Henry Thomas Davis
Gender: Male
Record Type: Card
Service Number: 200314
Corps, Regiment or Unit: Rifle Bde
Title: Pension Record Cards
Description: Other Ranks Died Davis A-Davis H

 

Reference Number:

11.M.242552,11.W.81107

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61588&h=21621930&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=JrD4182&_phstart=successSource

Also on Ancestry to Fold3

 

George

 

Edited by George Rayner

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Jon Wickes
1 hour ago, PRC said:

 

I see you mean his entry in the National Roll of the Great War as H.T. Davis. (Image attached courtesy Geners Reunited).

 

1990248484_HTDavisNationalRollofHonoursourcedGenesReunited.jpg.d97fd8a7dc341e8b65dfa95387cc4552.jpg

 

This was a private publication consisting of pieces that, as far as I’m aware, were submitted by the person concerned or their family and was taken by the publisher at face value. They shouldn’t be taken as gospel but nor can they be entirely disregarded.

 

His journey out and back would have been via the Suez Canal, so Port Said, Egypt and the Rangoon postcard would also seem to tie in.

 

The 18th Battalion wasn’t formed until the 29th November 1915, and so he may have been sent out almost straight away but even if they stopped off in Mesopotamia on the way out, (and may even have originally been intended for there), his unit was never officially on the establishment for that Theatre of War and so he doesn’t qualify for the 1914/15 Star and the Victory Medal. Of course many men were aggrieved at not qualifying for medals and even went so far as to “self-award”. Don’t know if that happened here – certainly the 18th Battalion didn’t see any fighting. Possibly the 18th Battalion was the one he ended up with on the move to India in April 1919.

 

However I’ve had a quick look at the Medal Index Card entries at the National Archive and can’t see an alternative candidate for a Henry Davis who served with the Rifle Brigade other than those who started off in France. And a search for 330 Rifle Brigade and 200314 Rifle Brigade doesn’t bring up any likely candidates where the surname had been mis-spelt or mis-transcribed. As the 18th were the first Territorial Battalion of the Rifle Brigade they would also have been the ones allocated new service numbers in the 200000 range.

 

Do the postcards also include his service number?

 

I’n sure you’re aware but there are members of the Davis family recorded boarding at 87c Albany Road, Camberwell on the 1911 Census of England & Wales. Head of them is Robert Davis, a married Painters Labourer, aged 63 and born Lambeth. He states he has been married 37 years and has had 5 children of which 3 were then still alive. Living with him is his married “daughter”, (presumably daughter-in-law), Alice Ada Davis, (aged 29, born Banbury, Oxford) and probably Alices’ children, shown as Roberts’ grandchildren, Henry Davis, (aged 3, born Camberwell) and Dorothy Davis, (aged 1, born Southwark).

 

Alice is stated to have been married 4 years and to have had 3 children of which 2 were then still alive.

 

Head of the household is a 57 year old widow Ellen Day who has two of her own adult children living with her and two grandchildren.

 

Going back to the 1901 Census of England & Wales the 53 year old Robert Davis, a Builders Labourer born Lambeth, was recorded as the married head of one of the households at 17 Charleston Street, Newington, London. Living with him are wife Jane, (47), and sons Henry T, (24, Builders Labourer), and Lewis O., (18, Railway Porter) – all born Lambeth.  They also have a boarder.

 

The marriage of  Henry Thomas Davis to an Alice Ada Day was recorded in the Southwark Civil Registration District in Q1, 1907.

 

On the 1911 Census there is a married 32 year old Henry Davis, both Lambeth who was recorded on his employers premises on the night the census was taken. He worked as a Night Gate Porter at an address on St James Road, Battersea, which I believed was the Work House Hospital.

 

If Henry and Ada had any more children during the time he would have been serving, then the birth certificate under fathers’ occupation will show as a mimimum his Rank and the Regiment \ Corps he was serving with – and sometimes much more. This might help identify if he served with another unit.

 

He would also be likely to appear on the Absent Voters Lists for 1918 & 1919, however that would be a question of knowing roughly where he might normallyhave been living. See https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

As you have the postcards hopefully the last ones will be closer in time to 1918 and so a good indication of the address used for those electoral registers.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

PS - going forward you don't need to quote in full in your replies everytime. I check the threads I have contributed to by using the Activity option in the bar at the top, others "follow" threads or follow the All GWF activity screen,so if someone can help you will get a response. Good luck with your search :-)

Man Thanks for this Sir

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PRC
1 hour ago, George Rayner said:

Will check on Ancestry

image.png.84a551c4400c9db41d4e51c61fc66c74.png

 

 

Thanks George - much appreciated.

 

Just in case the 18th Battalion, The Rifle Brigade (Prince Consorts Own) have been overlooked by history I took a look at the National Roll of Honour for the other names above in case they too were shown as serving in Mesopotamia, but none of them got a mention.If they arrived in Theatre, (India or Mesopotamia) on the 5th January 1916 then no entitlement to the 1914/15 Star. Of course they may have gone through the Mediterraanean and reached Egypt in December 1915, so individuals may have felt they were entitled.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Jon Wickes

Peter and all of you Thank you very much indeed.

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PRC
1 hour ago, George Rayner said:

There is also a Pension card reference...but I don't subscribe to that

Name: Henry Thomas Davis
Gender: Male
Record Type: Card
Service Number: 200314
Corps, Regiment or Unit: Rifle Bde
Title: Pension Record Cards
Description: Other Ranks Died Davis A-Davis H

 

Reference Number:

11.M.242552,11.W.81107

And he died - presumably after leaving the Army and if it was related to an illness \ injury \ wound incurred while he was serving, then presumably at some point after the July 1921 cut-off point for him to be treated as an official Great War Casualty.

 

I see from the high-level search that Ancestry has two Pension Ledger card records for a Henry Thomas Davis who died 1923. There is a Henry T Davis of roughly the right age, 46, whose death was recorded in the Islington District of London in Q4 1923. However the Government Probate Service Calendar for 1923 records a Henry Thomas Davis of 8 Hardinge Street, Islington who died 10th November 1923, but has probate awarded to an Annie Elizabeth Davis, widow.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Davis&yearOfDeath=1923&page=4#calendar

 

Now that doesn't automatically mean that Annie Elizabeth Davis is Henrys' widow, or that the individual in the civil death index and the individual in the probate calendar are one and the same. But if he is then sounds almost like a different person to the man living in the pre-war civil records, whose wife was an Alice Ada. There is a likely marriage for such a couple in the Lambeth District in Q1 1901 - but that may be getting ahead of ourselves.

 

Perhaps a friendly forum pal who is a member of the Western Front Association can use that route to check to see if there is any reference to date of death and dependants on the ledger card.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Jon Wickes
20 minutes ago, PRC said:

And he died - presumably after leaving the Army and if it was related to an illness \ injury \ wound incurred while he was serving, then presumably at some point after the July 1921 cut-off point for him to be treated as an official Great War Casualty.

 

I see from the high-level search that Ancestry has two Pension Ledger card records for a Henry Thomas Davis who died 1923. There is a Henry T Davis of roughly the right age, 46, whose death was recorded in the Islington District of London in Q4 1923. However the Government Probate Service Calendar for 1923 records a Henry Thomas Davis of 8 Hardinge Street, Islington who died 10th November 1923, but has probate awarded to an Annie Elizabeth Davis, widow.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=Davis&yearOfDeath=1923&page=4#calendar

 

Now that doesn't automatically mean that Annie Elizabeth Davis is Henrys' widow, or that the individual in the civil death index and the individual in the probate calendar are one and the same. But if he is then sounds almost like a different person to the man living in the pre-war civil records, whose wife was an Alice Ada. There is a likely marriage for such a couple in the Lambeth District in Q1 1901 - but that may be getting ahead of ourselves.

 

Perhaps a friendly forum pal who is a member of the Western Front Association can use that route to check to see if there is any reference to date of death and dependants on the ledger card.

 

Cheers,

Peter

He died in 1942 at home my father was there when he died aged 5 I have also found this below

Screenshot_20200306-093530~2.png

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Jon Wickes
21 hours ago, George Rayner said:

Welcome to the forum

He's listed as being

 

overseas from 5-1-16 to to 3-6-19. This is on Ancestry

 

George

 

Thanks very much for this

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Jon Wickes
14 hours ago, PRC said:

 

I see you mean his entry in the National Roll of the Great War as H.T. Davis. (Image attached courtesy Geners Reunited).

 

1990248484_HTDavisNationalRollofHonoursourcedGenesReunited.jpg.d97fd8a7dc341e8b65dfa95387cc4552.jpg

 

This was a private publication consisting of pieces that, as far as I’m aware, were submitted by the person concerned or their family and was taken by the publisher at face value. They shouldn’t be taken as gospel but nor can they be entirely disregarded.

 

His journey out and back would have been via the Suez Canal, so Port Said, Egypt and the Rangoon postcard would also seem to tie in.

 

The 18th Battalion wasn’t formed until the 29th November 1915, and so he may have been sent out almost straight away but even if they stopped off in Mesopotamia on the way out, (and may even have originally been intended for there), his unit was never officially on the establishment for that Theatre of War and so he doesn’t qualify for the 1914/15 Star and the Victory Medal. Of course many men were aggrieved at not qualifying for medals and even went so far as to “self-award”. Don’t know if that happened here – certainly the 18th Battalion didn’t see any fighting. Possibly the 18th Battalion was the one he ended up with on the move to India in April 1919.

 

However I’ve had a quick look at the Medal Index Card entries at the National Archive and can’t see an alternative candidate for a Henry Davis who served with the Rifle Brigade other than those who started off in France. And a search for 330 Rifle Brigade and 200314 Rifle Brigade doesn’t bring up any likely candidates where the surname had been mis-spelt or mis-transcribed. As the 18th were the first Territorial Battalion of the Rifle Brigade they would also have been the ones allocated new service numbers in the 200000 range.

 

Do the postcards also include his service number?

 

I’n sure you’re aware but there are members of the Davis family recorded boarding at 87c Albany Road, Camberwell on the 1911 Census of England & Wales. Head of them is Robert Davis, a married Painters Labourer, aged 63 and born Lambeth. He states he has been married 37 years and has had 5 children of which 3 were then still alive. Living with him is his married “daughter”, (presumably daughter-in-law), Alice Ada Davis, (aged 29, born Banbury, Oxford) and probably Alices’ children, shown as Roberts’ grandchildren, Henry Davis, (aged 3, born Camberwell) and Dorothy Davis, (aged 1, born Southwark).

 

Alice is stated to have been married 4 years and to have had 3 children of which 2 were then still alive.

 

Head of the household is a 57 year old widow Ellen Day who has two of her own adult children living with her and two grandchildren.

 

Going back to the 1901 Census of England & Wales the 53 year old Robert Davis, a Builders Labourer born Lambeth, was recorded as the married head of one of the households at 17 Charleston Street, Newington, London. Living with him are wife Jane, (47), and sons Henry T, (24, Builders Labourer), and Lewis O., (18, Railway Porter) – all born Lambeth.  They also have a boarder.

 

The marriage of  Henry Thomas Davis to an Alice Ada Day was recorded in the Southwark Civil Registration District in Q1, 1907.

 

On the 1911 Census there is a married 32 year old Henry Davis, both Lambeth who was recorded on his employers premises on the night the census was taken. He worked as a Night Gate Porter at an address on St James Road, Battersea, which I believed was the Work House Hospital.

 

If Henry and Ada had any more children during the time he would have been serving, then the birth certificate under fathers’ occupation will show as a mimimum his Rank and the Regiment \ Corps he was serving with – and sometimes much more. This might help identify if he served with another unit.

 

He would also be likely to appear on the Absent Voters Lists for 1918 & 1919, however that would be a question of knowing roughly where he might normallyhave been living. See https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

As you have the postcards hopefully the last ones will be closer in time to 1918 and so a good indication of the address used for those electoral registers.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

PS - going forward you don't need to quote in full in your replies everytime. I check the threads I have contributed to by using the Activity option in the bar at the top, others "follow" threads or follow the All GWF activity screen,so if someone can help you will get a response. Good luck with your search :-)

This is great thank you so much.

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PRC
13 hours ago, PRC said:

Perhaps a friendly forum pal who is a member of the Western Front Association can use that route to check to see if there is any reference to date of death and dependants on the ledger card.

 

Thank you to @Bardess who has provided the information directly.

 

13 hours ago, Jon Wickes said:

He died in 1942 at home my father was there when he died aged 5 I have also found this below

 

What Fold 3 have is a Ministry of Pension award card for Henry Thomas Davis who was Regimental number 200314 of the Rifle Brigade. It's not at all clear when and why the card was created however I would say from the handwriting and ink colour and fading that all the information on it was added at the same time. The fact that the entry for the last award is initialled and dated 9.4.42 and that from the other information on the card makes me think it relates to a widow means it probably means that it was created as a result of the death of your great grand-dad.

 

The widow is Alice Ada Davis and the address is 87c Albany Road, Camberwell.

 

So looks like the man on the Medal Index Card \ Service Medal Roll and the man in the National Roll of Honour are one and the same.

 

Without his service records you will probably never know which version of his wartime activities is closer to the truth. I have come across instances from 1915 in which men in Territorial Force units volunteered to serve with Regular Army Battalions in Mesopotamia and were shown as attached - but they were from TF units already out in India. And following the introduction of conscription in the spring of 1916, they were compulsorarily transferred to their new unit and so weren't included in the Territorial Force renumbering at the start of 1917.

 

Sometime during the next year there should be another batch of pension ledger cards released - I believe this one covers men who survived and so could possibly include a little bit more on Henry such as why a pension was awarded. It must have been something long-term for him still to have been receiving a pension in 1942 and significant enough that the Ministry of Pensions didn't offer a lump sum in the mid-twenties as they did to many whose disability related pension was very small.

 

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

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Jon Wickes
1 hour ago, PRC said:

 

Thank you to @Bardess who has provided the information directly.

 

 

What Fold 3 have is a Ministry of Pension award card for Henry Thomas Davis who was Regimental number 200314 of the Rifle Brigade. It's not at all clear when and why the card was created however I would say from the handwriting and ink colour and fading that all the information on it was added at the same time. The fact that the entry for the last award is initialled and dated 9.4.42 and that from the other information on the card makes me think it relates to a widow means it probably means that it was created as a result of the death of your great grand-dad.

 

The widow is Alice Ada Davis and the address is 87c Albany Road, Camberwell.

 

So looks like the man on the Medal Index Card \ Service Medal Roll and the man in the National Roll of Honour are one and the same.

 

Without his service records you will probably never know which version of his wartime activities is closer to the truth. I have come across instances from 1915 in which men in Territorial Force units volunteered to serve with Regular Army Battalions in Mesopotamia and were shown as attached - but they were from TF units already out in India. And following the introduction of conscription in the spring of 1916, they were compulsorarily transferred to their new unit and so weren't included in the Territorial Force renumbering at the start of 1917.

 

Sometime during the next year there should be another batch of pension ledger cards released - I believe this one covers men who survived and so could possibly include a little bit more on Henry such as why a pension was awarded. It must have been something long-term for him still to have been receiving a pension in 1942 and significant enough that the Ministry of Pensions didn't offer a lump sum in the mid-twenties as they did to many whose disability related pension was very small.

 

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

You have been outstanding Sir I will put my appreciation into money for this great forum thank u so very much.

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stiletto_33853

18th Rifle Brigade

Came into being 11 November 1915 being formed by transfers for the Queens, Royal Sussex, East Surrey, Essex & Middlesex Regiments, and from the 7th, 10th, 18th, 20th and 24th Battalions of the London Regiment. A bare fortnight after they were formed, on 26 November, they sailed for India in the transports "Militiades" and "Ballarat" with a strength of one thousands all ranks and arrived at Rangoon on 2 January 1916.Here they remained, quartered at the Sale barracks for the rest of the war. Their life must indeed have been a dull one, and the marked absence of crime in Part II Orders is greatly to their credit.

They had a detachment of two Companies at Port Blair, in the Adaman Islands, guarding the Convict Settlement. This was reduced to one Company in February 1917 when they were finally relieved by the 1st Garrison Battalion Royal Irish Fusiliers.

No adventures occurred, though detachments went on escort duty to Basra (and qualified for the Victory Medal), and were employed on the minesweepers patrol at Bombay.

The battalion remained in India until 1 November 1919, although many had been sent home earlier in 1919. 

 

No Victory Medal on his MIC, hence the claim in the National Roll entry might be erroneous unless there is another MIC for him showing the Victory Medal, although the 18th Rifle Brigade never saw any action which goes against his Roll entry and his medal entry states entry into India on the same date as others from the Battalion.

 

Sorry, I do not have any pictures of him but a good few of the battalion.

 

Andy

18th Rifle Brigade (10).jpg

18th Rifle Brigade (2).jpg

Edited by stiletto_33853

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