A brief history of the 30th Division...annotations

[Dave66]

Google isn’t helping much but can someone pinpoint where tunnel street is or was, ...unfortunately I no longer have ancestry, but it would be nice to see if the William lyall had a connection to the division.

 

Also, clarifying the mucky duck divisional reference would help.

 

Thanks all,

 

Dave.

Edited 9 March , 2020 by Dave66

[mebu]

Turner Street? Mucky Duck often a nickname for the Black Swan.

 

 

PS there was a Turner Street in Rusholme, just NE of Maine Rd football ground

Edited 9 March , 2020 by mebu

[Dave66]

Turner streets certainly a possibility..thank you.

Ive seen the black swan reference, but I can’t find anything contemporary with regard this division or the badge.

 

Dave.

 

[mebu]

Sans Changer is the motto on the Liverpool Pals emblem, below the bird on the crown  - 30 Div - on your frontispiece.

[Dave66]

9 minutes ago, mebu said:

Sans Changer is the motto on the Liverpool Pals emblem, below the bird on the crown  - 30 Div - on your frontispiece.

Brilliant, thank you mebu.

 

Dave.

 

[daggers]

The eagle and child badge is the family crest of the Earls of Derby, one of whom raised the Pals battalions of the King’s Liverpool Regiment.  Also known as ‘bird and babby’.

[Dave66]

13 minutes ago, daggers said:

The eagle and child badge is the family crest of the Earls of Derby, one of whom raised the Pals battalions of the King’s Liverpool Regiment.  Also known as ‘bird and babby’.

Thank you daggers,

much appreciated.

 

Dave.

[johnboy]

William Lyall

Shown 1911 Census Living at 13  Turner Street

aged 37yrs Single working as shopfitter.

Assume too old to have served in 1918? Perhaps he had a relative serving with them?

[Dave66]

6 minutes ago, johnboy said:

William Lyall

Shown 1911 Census Living at 13  Turner Street

aged 37yrs Single working as shopfitter.

Assume too old to have served in 1918? Perhaps he had a relative serving with them?

Johnboy thank you, and that confirms Turner street beautifully.

As the annotation doesn’t have any regimental details such as rank etc, it was my assumption that William possibly had a son or nephew involved with that division.

 

Dave.

[johnboy]

Was living with mother, widowed aged 65 and , there is a 5yrold grandson shown. Probably grandson of Head.

Will have another look and see if  grandsons father served. grandson shown as george  hubbard. no sign of mother or father at that address but in 1939 register william still at Turner street with george hubbard and lizzie hubbard.

Edited 9 March , 2020 by johnboy

[Dave66]

Thanks johnboy.

[TullochArd]

William Lyall has clearly written "The Old Sans Chancers" which seems to be a deliberate play on the motto "Sans Changer" in that ancient tradition of British Army banter.  He immediately follows this with his "Mucky Duck" which may be (yet another * ) distant nickname for the associated badge/formation/unit.  I could easily see an ex-serviceman using such pseudo-affectionate terms but at 37 in 1911 he seems to be too old to have served legally.  It's also a curious end of War pamphlet to annotate in such a manner - there has to be a very personal link ……. somewhere.

 

* "Derby's (sometimes qualified) Duck", "The Bird", "The Bird and Bastard", "The Duck and Bastard" "The Ruptured Duck" "The Constipated Duck" - all from Graham Maddocks excellent book 'Liverpool Pals'

Edited 10 March , 2020 by TullochArd

[Dave66]

Thank you TullochArd.

i agree, if it just had Williams name and address I would have thought no more of it and filed the booklet as normal. 
William had two younger brothers that would have been within conscription age at that late stage in the war so they are possibility, but there must be a connection to someone.

I will wait until a free weekend to go through as many service records as I can, I have parents names and address so that’s a good starting point.

 

Dave.