AngusScully Posted 5 March , 2020 Share Posted 5 March , 2020 (edited) At the Vancouver Island Military Museum we began researching the life of a local man who was killed while flying for 204 Sqdn in Oct 1918. (See www.vimms.ca for latest newsletter and preliminary article on this man). Osborne John Orr, DFC, 152219. Joined Imperial Royal Flying Corps (also commonly referred to as RFC Canada) Oct. 1917, in Toronto. This was not a Canadian government operation, so enquires to the Library and Archives Canada are referred to UK National Archives. At the UK National Archives we located his attestation paper and his service record. His service record begins with his arrival from Canada in April 1918. Historical accounts (Sullivan, Wise) indicate that Orr would have taken basic flight training in Canada, and complete records of that were kept. However, those personnel records are missing. We are particularly interested in finding out if Orr would have been part of the RFC Canada that trained in Texas that winter. The National Archives UK responded to our enquires, and say they do not have them. The Library and Archives Canada double checked, and do not have the archive. Enquires to the following have all come up with a negative: Canadian War Museum, Canadian Department of National Defence Directorate of History, RCAF Museum, City of Toronto Archives, Archives of Ontario. So, our research into Orr has become a search for the personnel files of the 20 000 Canadians who were in the Imperial Royal Flying Corps in Canada in 1917 and 1918. It begins to look as if they are lost. Has anyone come across them? Any suggestions? Edited 5 March , 2020 by AngusScully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Martyn Posted 6 March , 2020 Share Posted 6 March , 2020 As I have already posted in response to this same query on the rafcommands forum! Angus, No such animal as the 'Imperial' Royal Flying Corps, as far as I am aware, not officially anyway. Osborne John Orr's airman's record can be found on The National Archives catalogue in the AIR79 series and his officer record under AIR76. AIR76 you can download there for a fee. AIR79 you can download through Find My Past (you might be able to access on a free trial basis?) Errol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 6 March , 2020 Share Posted 6 March , 2020 It was being used in respect of recruiting posters but as far as I'm aware it was simply an advertising tag-line for the RFC in Canada. https://calisphere.org/item/0f483df1fe49c4a25cd93e28c127ecfc/ Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 6 March , 2020 Share Posted 6 March , 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, AngusScully said: At the UK National Archives we located his attestation paper and his service record. His service record begins with his arrival from Canada in April 1918. Historical accounts (Sullivan, Wise) indicate that Orr would have taken basic flight training in Canada, and complete records of that were kept. However, those personnel records are missing. We are particularly interested in finding out if Orr would have been part of the RFC Canada that trained in Texas that winter. Doesn't answer AngusScully's question but the following may be of interest to others. 1, See Royal Flying Corps in Canada: http://www.canmilair.com/rcafhistory.htm Edit. 2. Aviation in Canada 1917-18: https://archive.org/details/aviationincanada00sullrich/mode/2up JP Edited 6 March , 2020 by helpjpl add link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusScully Posted 6 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 6 March , 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 6 March , 2020 Share Posted 6 March , 2020 (edited) The Record for Orr at NA and available on FMP seems to cover his Canadian Service. It is a RFC Canada form (RFC Can 363) and filled in in Toronto 2/10/17, showing he had no previous service. So surely this is his Canadian record ? I agree it is not as extensive as Canadian Army files of the period. Header of first of two page file , courtesy FindmyPast and the bottom of second page: Edited 6 March , 2020 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 6 March , 2020 Share Posted 6 March , 2020 charlie962 just beat me to it. Here's the FMP link https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fair79%2f1372%2f00059&parentid=gbm%2fair79%2f44188 Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusScully Posted 7 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 7 March , 2020 Thank you for your reply. We have Orr's Attestation papers, and from that we hoped to find the rest of his record of service in Canada. The fact that his Attestation Papers made it from Toronto to the UK National Archives was at first encouraging. Our belief that there is more available than the Attestation papers is based on: Alan Sullivan. Aviation in Canada. Rous and Mann. Toronto, 1919. Sullivan clearly had at hand a wealth of information about the IRFC/RAFC. He also stated on page 152, "A complete history of each cadet from the time he first made application until the time he proceeded overseas, through every stage of training and every movement, has been kept in minute detail." This is what we are looking for. The UK National Archives state that they have nothing more on Orr, other than his Attestation Papers and the service record which begins with his arrival in England. We have the names of many men who enlisted in the IRFC/RAFC in Canada and underwent training in Canada, but were never sent to England. Not all were cadets - some were kept in Canada as instructors. The UK National Archives has nothing about them. Sadly, the "complete history of each cadet" may be lost. We keep looking. Again, thank you for your efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quemerford Posted 7 March , 2020 Share Posted 7 March , 2020 Just a thought: have you tried the RAF Museum? They do have Casualty Forms and some medical records for RFC personnel. I realise you are looking for something a bit more substantial than a quick Google, so it might be worth a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMeech Posted 7 March , 2020 Share Posted 7 March , 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, quemerford said: Just a thought: have you tried the RAF Museum? They do have Casualty Forms and some medical records for RFC personnel. I realise you are looking for something a bit more substantial than a quick Google, so it might be worth a go. Hi That is probably a good idea, as if a person is killed or injured there is generally other sources of information available. 'Airmen Died in the Great War 1914-1918' (DVD-ROM) does have limited information on individuals and includes 241 names of air personnel who died in Canada of all causes (90 while flying) plus 44 who died in the United States (37 while flying), many of these would have been cadets in the RFC/RAF Canada training system, even though only a limited number of them. Mike Edited 7 March , 2020 by MikeMeech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipman Posted 7 March , 2020 Share Posted 7 March , 2020 There's this record but it may be the one also available on FindMyPast? Click Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusScully Posted 7 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 7 March , 2020 Thank you for your replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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