Toby Brayley Posted 3 March , 2020 Share Posted 3 March , 2020 (edited) "1st Issue" 1908 Web Equipment. Considered by us collectors as the "Holy Grail" of 1908 Web Equipment, here is are examples of the Waist belt and "Carrier, cartridge, 75 rounds, right". Introduced in January 1908, the "1st Issue" is usually distinguishable by its straight brass tabs, without eyelets. , The production of the straight tabbed "1st Issue" was short lived, and only lasted until November 1909, when the familiar eyletted tabs were introduced . The waist belt only ever had the straight tabs on the 2-inch web tabs at the rear. The Cartridge Carrier has issue markings to the 1st Ln or Lds (Lincolns or Londons?) and is picture with a Charger of MkVI Ball, MkVI Drill rounds in Mk1 and Mk2 Chargers, and the "Imperial Web Equipment Protector". I would welcome any other examples , especially the braces! Edited 3 March , 2020 by Toby Brayley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 3 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2020 Royal Marine Artilleryman (RMA), taken at the RA School of Gunnery at Shoeburyness c1915. He wears the early first issue P1908 web equipment with flared braces. It also provides one of the best studies I have seen of the converted "1903" GS Haversack for use with the 1908 WE. He is equipped with the Naval MK1*** SMLE rifle and hooked quillon bayonet. Grenadier Guardsman, still in 1st Issue W.E, he wears a Simplified S.D jacket dating this to c1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark holden Posted 3 March , 2020 Share Posted 3 March , 2020 Superb Toby thanks for sharing. I have a waistbelt 1st issue and water bottle cradle 1st issue but sadly missing the strap that secured it to the 1st pattern haversack. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 3 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2020 46 minutes ago, mark holden said: water bottle cradle 1st issue but sadly missing the strap that secured it to the 1st pattern haversack. Would very much like to see that, it is the only part of the Equipment I have not seen in "the flesh"! Regards Toby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 4 March , 2020 Share Posted 4 March , 2020 (edited) As I posted on Fb, should you ever want to part with the ammo pouch especially... Edited 4 March , 2020 by Andrew Upton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 4 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 March , 2020 1 hour ago, Andrew Upton said: should you ever want to part with the ammo pouch I would happily swap it for an early Mills Bandolier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 4 March , 2020 Share Posted 4 March , 2020 22 hours ago, Toby Brayley said: Royal Marine Artilleryman (RMA), taken at the RA School of Gunnery at Shoeburyness c1915. He wears the early first issue P1908 web equipment with flared braces. It also provides one of the best studies I have seen of the converted "1903" GS Haversack for use with the 1908 WE. He is equipped with the Naval MK1*** SMLE rifle and hooked quillon bayonet. He's equipped as infantry so are you sure he's not RMLI? Also of interest are the buff leather rifle sling and unusual pattern of boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 4 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 March , 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, wainfleet said: He's equipped as infantry so are you sure he's not RMLI? Also of interest are the buff leather rifle sling and unusual pattern of boots. RMLI had a different cap badge :-). If you look at the style of the of the flames compared to the other Fusiliers etc , you can make out six tips as per the RMA badge. It's actually a plain grenade reflecting the flash or light. Given the location and the Naval mark of SMLE my best assumption is still RMA. Edited 4 March , 2020 by Toby Brayley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark holden Posted 4 March , 2020 Share Posted 4 March , 2020 1st/transitional Issue Water bottle cradle missing the strap to secure it to the 1st pattern haversack. A second version of the 1st issue cradle converted in accordance with LoC 6th Jun 21. Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 5 March , 2020 Share Posted 5 March , 2020 On 04/03/2020 at 20:12, Toby Brayley said: RMLI had a different cap badge :-). Of course! Bit basic that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assafx Posted 6 March , 2020 Share Posted 6 March , 2020 Thank you for sharing Toby, a wonderful set. I am not sure these came from a 1908 but they do look like they came from a webbing equipment. Sadly, these are all that is left after 100 years in the ground. Assaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 6 March , 2020 Share Posted 6 March , 2020 goog morning, thank you for your equipment presentations. on the other hand, I have a question for you about loops I found on former Commonwealth cantonments in Artois. here are the loops that I have a problem with: 1 - 2 - 3 : Pattern 1908 4 - 5 - 6 : ??? Size: (h): height (l): width 4: 68.49 mm (h) / 46.43 mm (l) 5: 34.75 mm (h) / 35.51 mm (l) 6: 27.17 mm (l) / 27.78 mm (h) thank you in advance for your help. Kind regards Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 6 March , 2020 Share Posted 6 March , 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, assafx said: That one is something of a rare find - the buckle only used on MkI 1903 Pattern Bandoliers until late 1905. A stupidly over-complicated answer to a very simple problem: http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1903/components/1903_bandoliers.html MkI with complicated buckle: MkII with simplified buckle arrangement: 1 hour ago, battle of loos said: No.4 appears to be another rarely seen piece - the belt buckle from the VTC/OTC version of the 1908 Pattern webbing. Basically very similar to the standard 3-inch wide belts but made only 2 1/4 wide: http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1908/1908_belts.html No.5 looks like it might have been off of something similar to the Officers web equipment braces - difficult to be sure as once Mills had designed a buckle like that they would happily reuse it on any other design that required something similar: http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/officers/w_e_o/weo_exp/weox_straps.html Edited 6 March , 2020 by Andrew Upton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 6 March , 2020 Share Posted 6 March , 2020 good morning, thank you for your response in pictures. that's all the time. regards michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assafx Posted 7 March , 2020 Share Posted 7 March , 2020 20 hours ago, Andrew Upton said: That one is something of a rare find - the buckle only used on MkI 1903 Pattern Bandoliers until late 1905. A stupidly over-complicated answer to a very simple problem: http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1903/components/1903_bandoliers.html MkI with complicated buckle: Another case of over engineering, this time in a buckle ! Thank you for the identification, it was found in a ruined WWI structure with thousands of other finds. I guess this was still in use in 1917-1918. Thanks for the link, is it safe to say that Karkeeweb is showing the original "pattern 1908 web infantry equipment" as in the booklet? Assaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Brayley Posted 7 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 7 March , 2020 On 04/03/2020 at 23:37, mark holden said: 1st/transitional Issue Water bottle cradle missing the strap to secure it to the 1st pattern haversack. A second version of the 1st issue cradle converted in accordance with LoC 6th Jun 21. On 04/03/2020 at 23:37, mark holden said: That's cracking thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark holden Posted 8 March , 2020 Share Posted 8 March , 2020 A couple of 1st Issue belts. The first is virtually unworn and dated 1909. The second I can,t read the date issued to the Royal Marine Artillery the last is not first issue but retains the domed rivets (similar to US made pattern 14 equipment) of the 1st issue belts It is dated 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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