Harbourlady99 Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 I am trying to find more information about George Fitzwilliam. I know he went by the name of George Williams, He died on 5 OCT 1918 at Gouy, Aisne, Picardie, France. He was a Company Sergent Major at the time of his death in 11th battalion Sherwood Foresters. His father was John and his mother Julia but I am not sure of where he was born. Possibly about 1874 but I can not find anything to confirm this. So I am looking for help if at all possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 Hi Welcome to the forum. CSM George Williams MM. 63009 Notts and Derby Regt. was born in Chester and enlisted in Ashton under Lyne , Lancs.. from SDGW..searching Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourlady99 Posted 1 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2020 Gosh that was remakably quick. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 (edited) Presuming you have seen his CWGC https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/182209/fitzwilliam and his widow's remarriage to a Mr Carlisle [recorded as 29-1-1919 on his pension card - PC as George WILLIAMS 63009] You may be interested to know that the pension card also shows the same Dover address as CWGC for his widow Clara [b-1-1889] ... but also an earlier one of 3 Union Crescent, Egremont, Cheshire - presumably at around the time his death was notified to the Pensions Office on 29.10.1918 so may be another area to look for info. Two children: George Lionel Cauard {or Canard?} [b.29-11-1908] Mary Margaret Lois [b.5-7-1910] Edited 1 March , 2020 by Matlock1418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 Welcome to the forum. A family tree on Ancestry indicates he was George Lionel Fitzwilliam. Born in Chester about 1875. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/46042031/person/25775000744/facts Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 (edited) Hi His wife remarried (Clare/a Lois nee Harding) 1st qtr 1919 to Percy William Carlise in Warwick, Warwickshire. she died 1936. Barry Edited 1 March , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 For info: first report of MM in London Gazette 19 February 1917 was corrected by a later one 18 June 1917 "London Gazette, dated 19th February, 1917. For 73288 Sjt. G. Williams, Notts. & Derby. R., Read 63009 Sjt. G. Williams, Notts. & Derby. R." https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30135/supplement/6028 also corrected on his MM MIC at TNA https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6294439 [also available through other websites] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourlady99 Posted 1 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2020 Thank you all for your replys I have all that information but it doesn't all add up. There is an implication of two children born 1908 and 1910 but Clara and George didn't marry until 1917. Also I have searched and been unable to confirm the date of birth with a record. The information is just what is written on his military information. I do like to get my info right if I can. Harbourlady99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 49 minutes ago, Harbourlady99 said: There is an implication of two children born 1908 and 1910 From his pension card - The implication is that the children are Williams as no other surname is otherwise recorded But the dates are what it says on his PC - what else can I relay?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourlady99 Posted 1 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2020 Thanks for that info. Really helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 It could be that George and Clara had lived together as man and wife for years, and only got married to make it easier to get a pension, and claim for the children. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 (edited) Hi The children's birth certificates? George L C Fitzwilliams reg'd 1st qtr 1909 West Bromwich, Staffordshire 6b, 791 and Mary Margaret Lois Fitzwilliam 3rd qtr 1910 Birmingham, Warwickshire, 6d, 74. The certificates should give you the addresses and ??? father's details. George OBE 1.1. 1964 Senior Assistant Commissioner British South Africa Police Regards Barry Edited 1 March , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dink999 Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 I think this is the family on the 1911 census, if you then look for Clara Harding born Bristol 1885-1888 an interesting tree on Ancestry pops up with Clara marrying Evan Alexander Combs in 1906(kia 31/5/16) comments on the tree indicate that Clara dissapeared not long after their only child was born and Evan shows up as single on the 1911 census Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 George's birth {if the 1911 census reference to Scarborough is correct} was recorded Q3 1876 Scarboro' 9d 368. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 (edited) Hi All The 1911 census records him as a Warrant officer working at Birmingham County Court, ie. not a soldier.... living at 156 Hockley Hill, Birmingham. I think George was covering his tracks!!! Born Chester as Fitzwilliams? Married 3 yrs 1908 not 1917? Regards Barry Edited 1 March , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourlady99 Posted 1 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2020 That’s correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourlady99 Posted 1 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2020 1 hour ago, alf mcm said: George's birth {if the 1911 census reference to Scarborough is correct} was recorded Q3 1876 Scarboro' 9d 368. Regards, Alf McM But interestingly it says somewhere else Chester, Cheshire. There seems so much confusing info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourlady99 Posted 1 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2020 But interestingly it says somewhere else Chester, Cheshire. There seems so much confusing info on this family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourlady99 Posted 1 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2020 2 hours ago, alf mcm said: George's birth {if the 1911 census reference to Scarborough is correct} was recorded Q3 1876 Scarboro' 9d 368. Regards, Alf McM I saw that one but that would mean that he never took the Fitzwilliam name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 1 March , 2020 Share Posted 1 March , 2020 According to FREEBMD, there are no George Fitswilliam births registered between 1870 and 1888. There is George Williams in 1876. This implies to me that the Fitzwilliam name was used after the 1911 census. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourlady99 Posted 2 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 March , 2020 I agree, but in the army stuff it does say its the other way round. I also have a problem with his parents who I can't seem to find under either surname, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 2 March , 2020 Share Posted 2 March , 2020 According to FREEBMD statistics, they have a 100% coverage of births for the period we are interested in, so there was certainly no George Fitzwilliam{s} registered between 1870 and 1888. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourlady99 Posted 3 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2020 Is it at all possible to find out the enlistment date for George Williams in Ashton-under-Lyne where he signed up. or where should I go to find out this info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 3 March , 2020 Share Posted 3 March , 2020 Based on George's war gratuity and the date he died, he would have enlisted in the month following 5th October, 1914. Regards, Alf MCM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 March , 2020 Share Posted 3 March , 2020 #63009 is far too high a service number for Oct 1914 so he must have had an earlier number - possibly with another regiment. For comparison, #63004 was allocated in Jan 1917. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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