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Remembered Today:

George Fitzwilliam


Harbourlady99

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I am trying to find more information about George Fitzwilliam. I know he went by the name of George Williams, He died on  5 OCT 1918 at Gouy, Aisne, Picardie, France. He was a Company Sergent Major at the time of his death in 11th battalion Sherwood Foresters. His father was John and his mother Julia but I am not sure of where he was born. Possibly about 1874 but I can not find anything to confirm this. So I am looking for help if at all possible.

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Hi

Welcome to the forum.

CSM George Williams MM. 63009  Notts and Derby Regt.  was born in Chester and enlisted in Ashton under Lyne , Lancs.. from SDGW..searching

Regards Barry

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Presuming you have seen his CWGC https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/182209/fitzwilliam

and his widow's remarriage to a Mr Carlisle [recorded as 29-1-1919 on his pension card - PC as George WILLIAMS 63009]

You may be interested to know that the pension card also shows the same Dover address as CWGC for his widow Clara [b-1-1889] ... but also an earlier one of 3 Union Crescent, Egremont, Cheshire - presumably at around the time his death was notified to the Pensions Office on 29.10.1918 so may be another area to look for info.

Two children:

George Lionel Cauard {or Canard?} [b.29-11-1908]

Mary Margaret Lois [b.5-7-1910]

Edited by Matlock1418
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Hi

His wife remarried  (Clare/a Lois  nee Harding) 1st qtr 1919 to Percy William Carlise in Warwick, Warwickshire. she died 1936.

Barry

Edited by The Inspector
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For info: first report of MM in London Gazette 19 February 1917 was corrected by a later one 18 June 1917

"London Gazette, dated 19th February, 1917. For 73288 Sjt. G. Williams, Notts. & Derby. R., Read 63009 Sjt. G. Williams, Notts. & Derby. R."

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30135/supplement/6028

also corrected on his MM MIC at TNA

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6294439 [also available through other websites]

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Thank you all for your replys I have all that information but it doesn't all add up. There is an implication of two children born 1908 and 1910 but Clara and George didn't marry until 1917. Also I have searched and been unable to confirm the date of birth with a record. The information is just what is written on his military information. I do like to get my info right if I can.

Harbourlady99

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49 minutes ago, Harbourlady99 said:

There is an implication of two children born 1908 and 1910

From his pension card - The implication is that the children are Williams as no other surname is otherwise recorded

But the dates are what it says on his PC - what else can I relay??

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It could be that George and Clara had lived together as man and wife for years, and only got married to make it easier to get a pension, and claim for the children.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

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Hi

The children's birth certificates?

George L C Fitzwilliams  reg'd 1st qtr 1909 West Bromwich, Staffordshire 6b, 791 and  Mary Margaret Lois Fitzwilliam 3rd qtr 1910 Birmingham, Warwickshire, 6d, 74. The certificates should give you the addresses and ??? father's details.

George OBE 1.1. 1964 Senior Assistant Commissioner British South Africa Police

Regards Barry

Edited by The Inspector
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I think this is the family on the 1911 census, if you then look for Clara Harding born Bristol 1885-1888 an interesting tree on Ancestry pops up with Clara marrying Evan Alexander Combs in 1906(kia 31/5/16) comments on the tree indicate that Clara dissapeared not long after their only child was born and Evan shows up as single on the 1911 census

 

Dave

IMG_4766.PNG

IMG_4767.PNG

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George's birth {if the 1911 census reference to Scarborough is correct} was recorded Q3 1876 Scarboro' 9d 368.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

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Hi All

The 1911 census records him as a Warrant officer working at Birmingham County Court, ie. not a soldier.... living at 156 Hockley Hill, Birmingham. I think George was covering his tracks!!! Born Chester as Fitzwilliams? Married 3 yrs 1908 not 1917?

Regards Barry

Edited by The Inspector
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1 hour ago, alf mcm said:

George's birth {if the 1911 census reference to Scarborough is correct} was recorded Q3 1876 Scarboro' 9d 368.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

But interestingly it says somewhere else Chester, Cheshire. There seems so much confusing info

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2 hours ago, alf mcm said:

George's birth {if the 1911 census reference to Scarborough is correct} was recorded Q3 1876 Scarboro' 9d 368.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

 

I saw that one but that would mean that he never took the Fitzwilliam name.

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According to FREEBMD, there are no George Fitswilliam births registered between 1870 and 1888. There is George Williams in 1876. This implies to me that the Fitzwilliam name was used after the 1911 census.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

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I agree, but in the army stuff it does say its the other way round. I also have a problem with his parents who I can't seem to find under either surname,

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According to FREEBMD statistics, they have a 100% coverage of births for the period we are interested in, so there was certainly no George Fitzwilliam{s} registered between 1870 and 1888.

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

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Is it at all possible to find out the enlistment date for George Williams in Ashton-under-Lyne where he signed up. or where should I go to find out this info?

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Based on George's war gratuity and the date he died, he would have enlisted in the month following 5th October, 1914.

 

Regards,

 

Alf MCM

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#63009 is far too high a service number for Oct 1914 so he must have had an earlier number - possibly with another regiment.

 

For comparison, #63004 was allocated in Jan 1917.


Craig

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