School Cadet Corps: Why were some junior OTC, others affiliated to TF battalions?

[rolt968]

It's odd how you see something for many years and suddenly wonder why.

 

Some school cadet units were units of the Junior OTC while other were affiliated to Territorial Force Battalions.

 

Why was this? And whose decision was it?

 

My initial thought was that the TF battalion affiliations were continuing associations with Volunteer Units?

If so, did some change to being junior OTC units?

 

RM

[MBrockway]

Westlake in his A Register of Territorial Force Cadet Units 1910-1922 gives this ...

 

Quote

   In 1908 and the introduction of the Territorial Force those cadet corps formed within Public Schools were invited to join the newly created Officers Training Corps.  The OTC, which later became the Combined Cadet Force, had been formed under direct control of the War Office for the purpose of supplying officers, both to the Regular and Auxillery (sic) forces.

  It was not until 1910 that the remaining school and open cadet units of the Volunteer Force were catered for by the formation of a new organisation to be known as the Territorial Cadet Force.  Units of the new force were to be administered by the Territorial Force Associations which had been impowered (sic) under the Territorial and Reserve Forces Act to establish or assist cadet battalions or corps.

<snip>

The term "Cadet Unit" was to apply to Cadet Battalions, Cadet Companies, and all bodies of lads formed for the purposes of receiving instruction of a military nature.  Units of the Boys (sic) Brigade, Church Lads (sic) Brigade and Jewish Lads (sic) Brigade, who had always worked closely with their local Army Volunteers or Territorials, were later also to apply for and gain recognition as Army Cadets.

<snip>

  The authority to whom the Army Council delegated the power to grant official recognition to cadet units , or to cancel recognition already given, was the Territorial Force Association of the county in which the unit concerned had its headquarters.

  The County Associations were responsible for seeing that all the cadet units, which it had officially recognised, were efficiently organised and administered.  They also had the power to raise new units, to nominate Cadet Officers for appointment and to issue rules, regulations and orders for the government of units under their control, subject to the approval of the War Office.

  In order to gain recognition a cadet unit had to forward its application, accompanied by information as to its financial stability, direct to its local Territorial Force Association.  In its application each unit had to undertake to make every effort to furnish recruits to the Territorial Force.

<snip>

  An official list of recognised cadet units, showing the Territorial Force units to which they are (sic) affiliated, their organisation and strength, and the names of their officer was published by the War Office on the 1st of January of each year.

  Subject to approval of the County Associations, the actual age at which enlistment into a cadet unit was permitted was decided by the rules of each unit.  However cadets could not remain with their units, without the express sanction (sic) of the County Association, after they had reached the age at which enlistment into the Territorial Force became possible.

  Cadets who enlisted into the Territorial Force within six months of leaving a recognised cadet unit were excused all, or part of, their recruits' drill.  Cadet service could also count towards the grant of the Territorial Force Efficiency Medal, again providing that enlistment was within six months.  No service before the age of fifteen was counted.

 

 

Westlake has lots of further information on commissioning of cadet officers, capitation grants, equipment, arms and ammunition, etc. etc. but the above covers what I think you're after.

By 1918 over two thousand TF cadet companies had been recognised.  In 1917 membership of the Church Lads' Brigade cadet companies alone numbered nearly 80,000, making up more than half of the total TF cadet force.

Cheers,

Mark

[FROGSMILE]

On 27/02/2020 at 12:15, rolt968 said:

It's odd how you see something for many years and suddenly wonder why.

 

Some school cadet units were units of the Junior OTC while other were affiliated to Territorial Force Battalions.

 

Why was this? And whose decision was it?

 

My initial thought was that the TF battalion affiliations were continuing associations with Volunteer Units?

If so, did some change to being junior OTC units?

 

RM

Those cadet corps from schools delivering an education considered of a level appropriate for young officers, were allotted to the Junior Division of the OTC (I imagine there must have been a qualifying ‘process’ for this).  This status continued subsequently as the Junior Division were later retitled the Combined Cadet Force and remain associated with public (fee paying) schools to this day.

Conversely the stand alone cadet unit’s associated with lower grade, board and industrial schools, etc. as well as those attendingTerritorial drill halls, church premises (church lads, etc.), charities (boys brigade’s) and rooms set aside within regimental depots across Britain, remained affiliated to the Territorial Force.  As with so many things at that time, it was to a degree associated with social class, wealth, and religion too. 

Edited 14 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Moonraker]

In 1908, the Minister for War, Lord Haldane, invited universities and schools to form units of a new Corps to provide officers for the newly-formed Territorial Force and a reservoir of officer material in the event of war. As a result, 87 schools formed the Junior Officers' Training Corps, administered directly from the War Office which drew up schemes for training, introduced proficiency certificates and arranged for annual camps and inspections. Membership depended on two criteria: a corps of no fewer than 30 cadets over the age of 13, and military efficiency, gauged by the availability of facilities and qualified officer-instructors.

Some other schools besides those forming the OTC had formed Volunteer cadet units soon after 1900 and subsequently received full official recognition and a small grant from public funds. They were usually affiliated to Territorial Force Regiments and administered through County TF Associations. In 1915, 92 such units were attached to various regiments.

There was an implicit social distinction between the OTC and the Public Secondary Schools Cadet Association, with members of the latter being perceived to be of low social status. In 1918 the Association called for "the sweeping away of the invidious and anomalous distinction between OTC schools and Cadet Corps schools".

A "Public secondary schools" camp was held on Marlborough Common each year from 1915 to 1920 and from 1928-31 and at other locations in between.

(A cut & paste from my notes, thus the overlap with the omniscient Frogsmile's post.)

[PhilB]

3 hours ago, Moonraker said:

Membership depended on two criteria: a corps of no fewer than 30 cadets over the age of 13, and military efficiency, gauged by the availability of facilities and qualified officer-instructors.

Were these “qualified officer-instructors” supplied by the army or privately recruited by the cadet unit? As the training would be fairly basic, would they normally be NCOs/WOs? Or, again, would this depend on the social status of the unit concerned?

 

[FROGSMILE]

40 minutes ago, PhilB said:

Were these “qualified officer-instructors” supplied by the army or privately recruited by the cadet unit? As the training would be fairly basic, would they normally be NCOs/WOs? Or, again, would this depend on the social status of the unit concerned?

 

They were supplied by the Army for Territorial Force and Special Reserve units, but my understanding is that provision was under private arrangement for all else.  It had long been a lucrative means of employment for former SNCOs and those with musketry instructor certificates from Hythe commanded a premium.  There was no set rate for remuneration and the more wealthy public schools, for example, would pay more to secure a retired SNCO with a superior military cv.  As always, yer gets wot yer pays for…

NB.  Importance was afforded by some headmasters to drill, in part because this was seen as the foundation of military discipline, but they also liked putting on a fine show for parents on, e.g. founders day, which in turn enhanced the school’s profile and reputation.  The retired Foot Guards SNCOs did well out of that.

Edited 14 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[PhilB]

Despite the “qualified officer-instructors”  description, were they actually all non-commissioned?

[MBrockway]

10 minutes ago, PhilB said:

Despite the “qualified officer-instructors”  description, were they actually all non-commissioned?

With the caveat that I'm responding ONLY with respect to the Territorial Cadet Force, NOT the OTC Junior Division, Westlake states:

I believe Ray's source for this is the Territorial Cadet Force Regulations of 1910, so likely to be reliable.

It is corroborated by this answer from Haldane in the House of Commons on 19 Jul 1910 again I stress this only relates to the TCF and NOT the OTC, Junior Division:

Mr. ASHLEY: asked whether in the future officers appointed to cadet corps and battalions will be gazetted to the Territorial Force, unattached list, and as such come under Territorial Force Regulations?

Mr. HALDANE:  These officers will not be gazetted to the Territorial Force, and they will be governed by the Cadet Corps Regulations, and not by the Territorial Force Regulations. They will receive commissions as officers of the Cadet Force of their respective counties, which will be issued by the Lord Lieutenant.

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

52 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

With the caveat that I'm responding ONLY with respect to the Territorial Cadet Force, NOT the OTC Junior Division, Westlake states:

I believe Ray's source for this is the Territorial Cadet Force Regulations of 1910, so likely to be reliable.

It is corroborated by this answer from Haldane in the House of Commons on 19 Jul 1910 again I stress this only relates to the TCF and NOT the OTC, Junior Division:

Mr. ASHLEY: asked whether in the future officers appointed to cadet corps and battalions will be gazetted to the Territorial Force, unattached list, and as such come under Territorial Force Regulations?

Mr. HALDANE:  These officers will not be gazetted to the Territorial Force, and they will be governed by the Cadet Corps Regulations, and not by the Territorial Force Regulations. They will receive commissions as officers of the Cadet Force of their respective counties, which will be issued by the Lord Lieutenant.

 

 

I think that in a majority of cases the cadet commissioned officers came from amongst the schoolmasters in the public schools, again connected with Social standing.  Conversely the officers of TCF detachments often came from a wider pool, some of them with a military background, especially former auxiliaries, but also a few aspirational time served regular SNCOs.  Again, their social backgrounds and life experience undoubtedly played a part in their selection and approval, as there was always a degree of…is he the right sort of chap…

Edited 14 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[MBrockway]

1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

They were supplied by the Army for Territorial Force and Special Reserve units, but my understanding is that provision was under private arrangement for all else.  It had long been a lucrative means of employment for former SNCOs and those with musketry instructor certificates from Hythe commanded a premium.  There was no set rate for remuneration and the more wealthy public schools, for example, would pay more to secure a retired SNCO with a superior military cv.  As always, yer gets wot yer pays for…

NB.  Importance was afforded by some headmasters to drill, in part because this was seen as the foundation of military discipline, but they also liked putting on a fine show for parents on, e.g. founders day, which in turn enhanced the school’s profile and reputation.  The retired Foot Guards SNCOs did well out of that.

 

 ... as also did the Rifles.  This snippet comes from an article about Green Jacket involvement in the 1905 Public Schools Brigade 10 day summer camp, which was held at Aldershot in July/August 1905.  The two rifle regiments had developed a bit of a monopoly on assisting this annual event and this continued right up to the outbreak of the Great War.  This extract predates the formation of the OTC Junior Division, but the observations are equally applicable to the post 1908 OTC:

 

These retired NCOs employed as instructors would typically have held RSM or RQMS roles in the school corps rather than being commissioned as OTC cadet officers.

 

The KRRC also did much work with the Territorial Cadet Force and its antecedents.  The KRRC's 1st Cadet Bn, based at Sun Street, was the only cadet unit to be awarded the South Africa 1900-1902 Battle Honour, having supplied a company of 93 of the older cadets to the City Imperial Volunteers.  Field Marshall Lord Grenfell, KRRC, was Governor and Commandant of the Church Lads' Brigade, whose cadets in 1917, as I mentioned higher up, made up more than half of the total roll of the Territorial Cadet Force.

The KRRC placed great value on cadet forces, both the public school cadet forces (OTC/CCF) and the others (TCF/ACF) - see this extract from an article in the regimental journal ...

 

 

Mark

[PhilB]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I think that in a majority of cases the cadet commissioned officers came from amongst the schoolmasters in the public schools, again connected with Social standing. 

I’m not used to the idea of officers actually drilling squads or teaching the basics. It’s always been a job for NCOs in my time. Would these CCOs normally have experienced NCO assistance?

[FROGSMILE]

33 minutes ago, PhilB said:

I’m not used to the idea of officers actually drilling squads or teaching the basics. It’s always been a job for NCOs in my time. Would these CCOs normally have experienced NCO assistance?

Yes I don’t think that they drilled the cadets themselves (they would’ve seen themselves as above that role), it was more an organisational role, along with being in loco parentis.

Edited 14 February , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Chasemuseum]

To give a more modern equivalent for the Cadet system here in Australia, for the last annual camp in 1974 prior to the cadet scheme being disbanded by the Labor Government, my battalion had 1,200 cadets in a tent camp at an old airstrip at Holsworthy.  

 

When I joined the CMF (equivalent to Territorials), my regiment claimed to be the largest non-regular formation in the Australian Army. We could deploy about 250 to the annual training camp, but due to the high rate of turnover less than 2/3rds were actually effective with the largest of three companies being personnel still completing initial training.

 

Back in the 70s over half of the recruits to the regular forces and the reserves had prior training in the Cadet system. From my observations these former cadets were far more likely to remain in a reserve unit for the duration of their enlistment period than non-cadets.

 

A key part of the Government argument to disband the Cadet system was that it was of no value to national defence. Now 50 years later, it was clearly a critical tool for regular and reserve recruitment as well as providing useful preparatory training. The recruit courses have since had to be expanded to provide detailed training for a variety of skills such as small arms safe handling, musketry, infantry minor tactics, navigation, combat first aid, radio telephone procedures etc  where half of the recruit body could previously be relied upon to have a basic skill level and support the other half of their section. Additionally recruit retention has become a much more vexing issue, however this is arguably a factor of societal change.

 

It was certainly a dramatic change from a 1,200 man battalion in the field, when deployed digging in as a battalion position, to a 250 man battalion with half strength sections, two sections per platoon and only three infantry companies on the ground. Having to rely on all the imaginary troop positions during exercises.

 

[MBrockway]

In my time in the CCF in the 70s we were drilled by our officers, who were of course also masters in our school.  Most of them had served in WWII, some with great distinction.

We had no instructors from the Regulars and our WOs, SNCOs and NCOs were all from boys further up the school, who'd chosen to stay in the corps after the compulsory basic year when we were ~13yrs.

Our contact with the Regular army in the basic training year was small: annual inspection parades; squaddies driving Army coaches taking us to off-site fieldcraft/navigation/musketry training; and range staff when we shot .303 at the local barracks - we only used .22 at the school's range.  The various proficiency tests in drill, weapon safety, marksmanship, etc. etc. were also examined by an external officer, usually with an NCO alongside.  I remember them being Regulars, but not well enough to be 100% certain.

Boys who stayed in the corps after the basic year got more contact including a summer camp, which was usually at Sennybridge or Catterick, and their events on Field Days often involved doing something with the Regulars.

Of course experiences in the pre-War OTC may have been different from how the CCF worked sixty years later.

The KRRC article I referenced higher up does not describe how the cadets were trained before camp, nor by who, but here's what is says about their officers ...

[Remember this dates from 1905 before the formation of the OTC and refers to the Public School Brigade, not the Territorial Cadet Force]

 

Edited 14 February , 2023 by MBrockway

[Chasemuseum]

The above 1905 quote is a fairly accurate description of us in the early 70s except that under tents we would have about 16 in a WW2 vintage "Ten man" tent, but on bivouac in the field would use "hutchies" as 2 cadet shelters with WW1 & WW2 gas capes as ground sheets. I still have a WW1 manufactured (dated) gas cape, which unfortunately has a 1960/70s cadet owner's details written onto the inside of the cape in biro. In bivouac we were assigned a small number of regular army NCOs for instruction. They taught us how to site weapons pits, fields of fire, section fire control command, camouflage, etc. They all had recent service in Vietnam and recounted tales of combat, discussions that could not take place in Australia today.

 

When the cadet system was re-established in the early 80s, all combat training material was deleted from the curriculum and it became more like "Scouts" but in ADF uniforms.

[Chasemuseum]

I should also point out, Australia Federated in 1901 to be a self-governing dominion (hence ambassadors to the UK are "High Commissioners" rather than ambassadors and still retain that tittle.)   Each colony's militia was merged into the ADF. General Kitchener was invited to Australia to review and advise on the structure of the Army component of the ADF. His report of 1908 recommended that regular troops be limited to fortress (garrison) artillery and a limited number of technical functions such as Ordnance and an "Instructional Corps".  He also recommended the founding of an officer training college, which became Duntroon. He also recommended the adoption of a compulsory cadet system which would feed a volunteer militia. 

 

His recommendations were adopted and arguably were of benefit to the recruitment and training of the AIF during WW1. The compulsory cadet system was dismantled between the wars, but I would argue was still providing substantial benefits to the ADF in WW2.