ASC Badged MK I Helmet

[mark holden]

I recently acquired this MK I steel helmet from a good friend. I had long admired it as an untouched piece. It has an ASC cap badge brazed to the front and has lost its rim but has otherwise not been messed with.  It has had the owners name now indecipherable scratched to the inside rim. The relative (and undeserved in my opinion) ordinariness of the ASC in the eyes of some collectors added to its attraction rather than a more eye catching MGC or Infantry badge that may or may not have been sympathetically added at a later date.

 

Regards

 

Mark

[scottmarchand]

It is a lovely, real been there unmolested example Mark. I completely hear you on that attraction. I have an RAMC helmet that is similar in that respect.

[o j kirby]

Hello,

I agree that the ASC seems to have a lack of collecting appeal amongst some of us. I also disagree with the "ordinariness" of the ASC. I have been collecting items from this corps for quite a few years now, and the stories I have revealed through simple objects is time well spent. We have a corps that served in all theatres, and offers a massive spectrum of vital roles. I have learned a lot.

 

Cheers,

 

Owain

[wainfleet]

That's a nice piece! Are you sure there was once a rim on it? That pattern of wear is not unusual for raw-edged helmets. In some places the areas of missing paintwork extend well beyond where the rim would have been, which to me is indicative of wear rather than anything missing. I also think the shape looks early with the narrow front and rear and broader sides. It looks very similar to an example in my possession below, which has clearly never had a rim on it.

 

 

[scottmarchand]

Wainfleet: yes it clearly had a rim at some point, you can see the ghosted edges cleary in the picture where the paint does not cover.  I would suspect yours had a rim too. They were spot welded on and break over tome or were easily removed. The romance for a 'rimless' helmet causes many collectors to infer things that aren't correct. What are the maker stamps and batch number on yours - I can't make them out from your pictures? It's easy enough to work out when it was made and in the configuration it was delivered.

[wainfleet]

I can't see any specific ghosting on that helmet, just a pattern of wear that may or may not have been caused by a missing rim. I don't know how anyone can tell one way or the other purely from those photos, hence the above's just an observation on my part.

 

Here is a better picture of the markings on mine. I'm not up on batch markings so must rely on others for a date window. I try not to make undue inferences or "romance" about things but see no reason to doubt that this one's been made without a rim, or that it's in its original configuration. I think there's been some previous discussion here on this subject? I don't know why you think this one's also lost its rim, but let's see what the batch markings tell us.

 

 

[scottmarchand]

I would say that's a nice Miris Steel Co Ltd London. The  Trademark ( The word Myrys in a circle ) who made helmets in the 1916-17 period

 

And some general info on the type from another website:

"In October 1915 the Brodie helmet type A was approved by the War Office Inventions Dept and production started immediately,

the helmet was rimless and was painted a smooth dark green colour, the leather chinstrap was attached to the helmet brim

and the oilcloth liner was held in place to the skull of the helmet by a single rivet and a felt pad was fitted to the skull interior.

This helmet was commonly known as "Helmet Steel Mark 1" and also referred as "Brodie's Steel Helmet, War Office Pattern".

The liners were stamped with a Red Patent stamp, which read "Brodie's Steel Helmet Registration No 65199 War Office

Pattern Patent No 11803/16 and made by the Army and Navy Co-op Society Westminster in which Mr Brodie had an Interest.

 

In 1916 several improvements were made: a formed rim (emphasis mine) was added to the outer brim, and a new liner was utilized, on the

new liner there was a leather strap which was riveted to the top of the skull shell over a asbestos pad, liner and felt pad to

hold them in place, the chinstrap was held by brass loops riveted to the brim with split rivets.

also a net was fitted with draw string added to the liner for a better fit, the helmets were to be painted in a non- reflective

khaki - sand paint. Some type A rimless shells were reused and fitted with the new Mark 1 Liner.

 

In 1917 a further improvement was made by introducing a rubber ring under the skull pad this would prevent a direct impact

on the wearers helmet from being transmitted to the skull."

 

[wainfleet]

I don’t know what that other website is, but if it describes the first helmets as painted “a smooth dark green colour”, when apple green or duck-egg blue are the colours most collectors consider original to the first helmets, I'm not keen to trust it. In any case there’s no date of introduction for the added rim and new liner beyond the vague “in 1916”, leaving it open whether they were introduced at the same or different times. So I don't see what this proves.

 

Regarding rimless helmets: over 40 years of collecting I’ve seen dozens of rimless helmets with second pattern liners, often in excellent condition and too many in my opinion to have been relined or to have lost their rim. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I’ve concluded that the new liner was introduced before the rim, or perhaps stocks of the old liner ran out before the stocks of the raw-edge shells. That's just an opinion though as it never pays to be dogmatic where this stuff is concerned, and I’m willing to accept evidence. If you are saying rimless helmets with the later liner isn't a valid configuration, please provide some evidence.