Tony999 Posted 19 February , 2020 Share Posted 19 February , 2020 Hello all and thank you for adding me. I am just starting to research my grandfathers war record and came across this picture of him. I can see he was a corporal but have no idea what the badge is above. If it helps he was in the Royal Field Artillery. Many thanks for any help given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 19 February , 2020 Share Posted 19 February , 2020 It's the Rough Riders badge. This meant he was variously a riding instructor, remount trainer or - quite excitingly - responsible for breaking horses in. The RFA were effectively a mounted arm, so that is consistent with the badge. Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted 19 February , 2020 Author Share Posted 19 February , 2020 Thank you so much for the prompt reply, that fits in with something that is written in his demobilisation papers that "he was always good with his horses" It was only when I zoomed in on the enclosed pic I also noticed 2 stripes on his forearm, don't know if they are just folds or creases in the sleeve. Thanks once again, I will probably have many more questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 19 February , 2020 Share Posted 19 February , 2020 (edited) They're overseas service chevrons. Qualified for first one on landing overseas. Second one a year later. But the system didn't start till December 1917, but they were awarded retrospectively: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Service_Chevron Edited 19 February , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted 19 February , 2020 Author Share Posted 19 February , 2020 Cheers, just learned another 2 facts in the space on an hour despite having this picture for years wondering what they meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 19 February , 2020 Share Posted 19 February , 2020 Two chevrons? There might even be a third, although that could just be a fabric crease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 19 February , 2020 Share Posted 19 February , 2020 I'm in favour of 3. Sjmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted 19 February , 2020 Author Share Posted 19 February , 2020 Looking again you may be correct, I know that he joined in 1912, I have his 1914 star and have seen on his army record that he had clasp or clasps, at some point he was transferred to the devonshire regiment and also the labour corps then returned to his unit. Currently trying to find out where he served etc but to be honest I don't know where to start. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 19 February , 2020 Share Posted 19 February , 2020 11 minutes ago, Tony999 said: Looking again you may be correct, I know that he joined in 1912, I have his 1914 star and have seen on his army record that he had clasp or clasps, at some point he was transferred to the devonshire regiment and also the labour corps then returned to his unit. Currently trying to find out where he served etc but to be honest I don't know where to start. Cheers If you post any information you have, name, date/place of birth, number from the 1914 Star etc. folk here would usually be happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted 19 February , 2020 Author Share Posted 19 February , 2020 The details I have are these Albert White born 28th Nov 1888 Service number 68938 along with a new number 1007689 Royal Field Artillery 156 Brigade D battery 22nd battery from Jan 1915 to August 1916. ??? 33rd Divisional artillery That's all I have If anyone can shed some more light I would be eternally grateful Cheers Tont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 19 February , 2020 Share Posted 19 February , 2020 Do you have any other family details such as siblings names, addresses etc? The details you provided should provoke an informed response but the more detail you can supply the more information is likely to surface, good luck with your reseasch. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 19 February , 2020 Share Posted 19 February , 2020 (edited) The two stripes beneath his Roughrider badge of a spur indicate that his rank was Corporal, for some reason this was not previously mentioned. Edited 20 February , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 19 February , 2020 Share Posted 19 February , 2020 Apart from in the original post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 February , 2020 Share Posted 20 February , 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, mancpal said: Apart from in the original post Yes, I see it now Simon. Senility must be creeping in.... Edited 20 February , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 20 February , 2020 Share Posted 20 February , 2020 (edited) From the Army Order ………. “Chevrons of two colours – red and blue – have been approved. The first chevron, if earned on or before 31st December 1914, will be red; if earned on or after 1st January 1915, it will be blue; and all additional chevrons after the first will be blue” Edited 20 February , 2020 by TullochArd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 20 February , 2020 Share Posted 20 February , 2020 (edited) You can read about 156 Brigade (which was part of the 33rd Division's artillery) on LLT here: http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-royal-artillery-in-the-first-world-war/batteries-and-brigades-of-the-royal-field-artillery/clvi-clxii-clxvi-and-clxvii-howitzer-brigades-rfa-33rd-divisional-artillery/ and note the additional link from that page. 22 Battery was initially in 34 Brigade RFA in 2nd Division and from Feb 1917 in 3 Brigade RFA in 7th Division. There is more to learn. His re-enlistment in 1924 is the reason for his 7 digit number. As you know he also served after the Royal Field Artillery in the Devonshire regiment (another number) and then the Labour Corps (yet another number). Because he served after 1920, his record, which would make sense of all the above, will still be with the Ministry of Defence and can be applied for: https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records Max Edited 20 February , 2020 by MaxD typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 20 February , 2020 Share Posted 20 February , 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, TullochArd said: From the Army Order ………. “Chevrons of two colours – red and blue – have been approved. The first chevron, if earned on or before 31st December 1914, will be red; if earned on or after 1st January 1915, it will be blue; and all additional chevrons after the first will be blue” I have att'd below a photo of Royal Navy War Service chevrons to give readers of this topic as idea of what they looked like. Likely the Army WS Chevrons were embroidered on a khaki background. Bryan Edited 20 February , 2020 by RNCVR .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 20 February , 2020 Share Posted 20 February , 2020 Looking again at what we have on Albert White, it would seem, from his medal roll entry and medal card that he went overseas to France first with 22 Battery of 34 Brigade in the 2nd Division. That battery went to 3 Brigade in 28 Division in February 1915 but left (source LLT) before 28 Division went to Salonika. This doesn't seem to accord with 3 Brigade's war diary which still has 22 Battery iin the brigade leaving for Marseilles (for Salonika) end Oct 1915. There is a medical record for him in 28 General Hospital in Dec 1915 with his unit given as "22" which I can't reconcile with the battery changing brigades. It isn't 22 Brigade, that was in France. He transferred to the Devonshires on 6 March 1917 (medal roll) but the RA Attestations entry says the same date to the Labour Corps leaving them on 26 Jun 1918 back to the RFA. In this I don't know where 156 Brigade fits in and sources on 22 Battery in the 1915 time frame are confusing I haven't seen a Salonika diary. Perhaps some one else can shed light on the seeming anomalies although given that his records are not to hand, I fear a complete unravelling of his service would best be done with those to hand. Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony999 Posted 20 February , 2020 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2020 Wow so much information of which I am trying to understand. What I would to say is a huge thank you for all your help and comments it really does mean a lot. I have found out today that Albert's father ( my great grandfather joined the 24th Foot in 1846 and served in India , but that's for another day lol Thanks once again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 20 February , 2020 Share Posted 20 February , 2020 With regard to his Overseas chevrons, then his medal card confirms he went overseas in August 1914. Thus when the chevrons were authorised in December 1917, assuming he was overseas the whole time ( and not in the UK say, in hospital) , he would surely have been entitled to One Red and 3 Blue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 20 February , 2020 Share Posted 20 February , 2020 12 hours ago, MaxD said: Because he served after 1920, his record, which would make sense of all the above, will still be with the Ministry of Defence and can be applied Having checked the Spreadsheets for MOD files, I can't immediately see an A. White with that date of birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 21 February , 2020 Share Posted 21 February , 2020 Tony999. If you really want to understand his complete service path then you need to see his service record which Dai has confirmed is with Glagow. There are gaps and anomalies that can't be resolved with complete accuracy without it. The process is here: https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records Max PS Hoping someone can confirm that 22 Battery did indeed go to Salonika with 28 Division, Chris Baker may need the tippex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 21 February , 2020 Share Posted 21 February , 2020 14 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: With regard to his Overseas chevrons, then his medal card confirms he went overseas in August 1914. Thus when the chevrons were authorised in December 1917, assuming he was overseas the whole time ( and not in the UK say, in hospital) , he would surely have been entitled to One Red and 3 Blue? I'd agree with that Dai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 21 February , 2020 Share Posted 21 February , 2020 So any photo of him must have a minimum of 4 stripes? (Ts & Cs apply) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 21 February , 2020 Share Posted 21 February , 2020 10 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: So any photo of him must have a minimum of 4 stripes? (Ts & Cs apply) Perhaps not as Ts and Cs do indeed apply …… "Additional chevrons will be awarded for each successive aggregate period of 12 months’ service outside the United Kingdom …….." and "The qualifying service for additional chevrons need not be continuous. It will include periods of leave up to one month where the individual returns overseas at the conclusion of such leave." So over four weeks back in Blighty at some point might explain three chevrons not four? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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