Gallipoli fatality - I've hit the research buffer stops - any advice gratefully received.

[DavidOwen]

Nothing for Holden, Roscoe or Roscow under deaths at sea from the New South Wales records.

[TullochArd]

3 hours ago, DavidOwen said:

Nothing for Holden, Roscoe or Roscow under deaths at sea from the New South Wales records.

 

Thanks David - another road closes!

[TullochArd]

 

The Frederick Roscow Holden story has run it’s course and the corporate consensus is perhaps not surprising. Many thanks to all that got involved. Based on the St Nicholas gravestone (date of death of simply “1915” and “Gallopoli” not “Gallipoli”), the Rossendale Free Press letter and the lack of evidence from the very intact Australian records it seems there is no firm evidence to conclude Fred actually died in the Great War......the Army would never had advised a confirmed death using a whole year and the Australian Records, which were not blitzed like the UK ones, reveal absolutely no supporting evidence. It seems probable that at some point he simply got on with his life abroad and lost contact with his sole surviving sister. The gravestone his sister later had made (photo attached), and her reference in the RFP letter, are likely testimony to her attempts to seek closure to the tragic events surrounding her life around this time. The loss of both her parents and both her brothers – a possibly implied loss in the case of Fred.

 

Edited 17 March , 2020 by TullochArd

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Ah well, you gave it a good shot.

You never know, one day, some DNA evidence might solve this one, somehow...

[davidbohl]

I've found a good possibility of him arriving in Sydney, Australia in 1913, the age is right 27, and occupation weaver which is ideal for a Rossendale lad.

From FamilySearch passenger lists:-

 

A strange story crops up on the Trove Australian Newspaper Archive of a Frederick Holden doing a runner from a marriage in 1914 in Parramatta just outside Sydney.

The marriage record on Ancestry doesn't stack up with the FRH of Rossendale but the entire story could have been fabricated by him.

 

 

Another Rossendale casualty from the Aussie papers Edward Carmalt

Dave

 

 

Edited 21 March , 2020 by davidbohl
another Holden clip

[TullochArd]

David, These are fantastic finds. Really appreciated.

 

My prime suspect for Fred Holden was actually a serial name changer …….. and man on the run from several women worldwide. He stated his multiple name changes were "caused by domestic strife” which is no exaggeration …….. Sep 1915 Miss Powell (his wife to be) requests address with response 2041 Pte F J HOLDEN 3^rd Reinforcements 17^th Battalion, Alexandria, Egypt and later in the war M/s E Grass 65 Trinity Street Southwark London requests address as “important business to address”

 

He is identified in his 100 pages of Australian Service Records variously as 48029 Frederick John HOLDEN and 1023 Pte Francis Henry HOGAN and many, many years later as (service number 111) James CARLIN. He also claimed Australian pre-war military service as a Recruiting Sergeant (amongst other things) which suggested prior military service somewhere else.  I'm still trying to pin down a Frederick Roscow HOLDEN with prior pre-war service in the Staffordshire Regiment which may be the missing link. 

 

I think that's my coronavirus isolation project sorted!

 

As for Ted Carmalt that's a cracker too.

 

Much appreciated.

 

Ian

 

[davidbohl]

Ian, another couple of chaps for your coronavirus isolation project, John Henry and Fred Fielding on Trove Australian Newspaper Archive.

Dave

[TullochArd]

Thanks David - much appreciated.  John (Jack) Fielding was killed at Beersheba.  Fred was a bit of a mystery but this clue has nailed him 100% as the Lancashire Fusilier.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

I'm confused.

 

Are you saying that Fred Holden is Fred Fielding, and that John Henry Fielding is his brother?

CWGC says this about John Fielding:

"Son of James Henry and J. Fielding, of 207, Dean, Lane, Manchester, England. Native of Rawtenstall, Manchester."

[TullochArd]

41 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

I'm confused.

 

Are you saying that Fred Holden is Fred Fielding, and that John Henry Fielding is his brother?

CWGC says this about John Fielding:

"Son of James Henry and J. Fielding, of 207, Dean, Lane, Manchester, England. Native of Rawtenstall, Manchester."

 

Sorry Dai - you are quite rightly confused and it is 100% my fault.  I should have said "John (Jack) Fielding was killed at Beersheba.  Fred (FIELDING) was (IN REFERENCE IN POST #32) a bit of a mystery but this clue has nailed him 100% as the Lancashire Fusilier." 

[BarbaraG]

On 20/02/2020 at 09:19, TullochArd said:

Thanks Dai.  The local Holden family had moved on/died with the sister the only one surviving by the end of the War.  It's her account and gravestone that tells the story.  I'll check regarding possible surviving children from her. Nothing factual has turned up to so far to support the story other than pure speculation that he might have served under an Australian alias which cannot be proved.  The local Waterfoot/Cowpe history group worthies have also drawn a total blank on this one - other than relating the sister's account - and they regularly come out tops on the colloquial side.  Beyond eliminating the "Australian" mercantile marine civilian "Died at Sea" possibility (which I have yet to get to grips with) I've run out of road on this one. Not the first and certainly not the last!    

 

Not sure if you will have seen Pension Record for Israel - his widow remarried and there was a son James Frederick. May or may not shed more light on the Family.

[TullochArd]

24 minutes ago, BarbaraG said:

 

Not sure if you will have seen Pension Record for Israel - his widow remarried and there was a son James Frederick. May or may not shed more light on the Family.

 

……. many thanks ……. I'll follow it up.