Gallipoli fatality - I've hit the research buffer stops - any advice gratefully received.

[TullochArd]

I have a local Memorial that is causing me some grief in research terms (photo attached).  Frankly I've hit the buffer stops.

 

The Cowpe war memorial (and also the St. James, Waterfoot war memorial) names two brothers who died in the Great War.  They are Israel (b.1886) and Frederick Roscoe (b.1887) HOLDEN.  They are sons of Jesse and Elizabeth Holden of Waterfoot, Rossendale, Lancashire and brothers of Mary Alice Holden (b.1883).  Israel Holden is easily identified as 17151 Pte Israel Holden, 10th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers who was killed in action on 7th July 1916 and is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial. 

 

Fred Holden is proving mighty illusive:

 

CLUE 1 - Family Headstone: "Also of Fred their son/ killed in Gallipoli 1915/ aged 28 years/ Also of Israel their son/ killed in France July 7th 1916/ aged 30 years"   

 

CLUE 2 - Rossendale Free Press 5 Aug 1916 "His (Israel Holden's) death recalls the fact that shortly before the outbreak of war his younger brother, Mr. Fred Holden, emigrated to Australia. Soon after the war began his sister, Miss Mary Alice Holden, of Springside, Cowpe, received a letter from him saying that he had joined the colours and that he was in Egypt. Since then nothing has been heard of him."

 

CLUE 3 - Although both appear on the 1891 and 1901 Census Fred does not appear on the 1911 Census.

 

I've trawled all the usual UK military sites and the very well stocked Australian military equivalents...….result ……..nothing! 

 

Any clues for a new line of enquiry gratefully received! 

[Acknown]

This one: https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/924260/holden,-frederick/?

Acknown

 

Edited 15 February , 2020 by Acknown

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

I don't think so:

 

29 minutes ago, TullochArd said:

They are sons of Jesse and Elizabeth Holden of Waterfoot, Rossendale, Lancashire

 

[TullochArd]

1 minute ago, Acknown said:

This one: https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/924260/holden,-frederick/?

Acknown

 

Thanks Acknown - much appreciated.  The fly in the ointment here is this fellow is "Son of George and Annie Holden, of Tempsford Rd., Sandy, Beds., England."  and my mystery man is son of Jesse and Elizabeth Holden.  

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

If he was an ANZAC, his place of birth should be on this interactive map:

https://discoveringanzacs.naa.gov.au/browse/places

[TullochArd]

12 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

If he was an ANZAC, his place of birth should be on this interactive map:

https://discoveringanzacs.naa.gov.au/browse/places

 

Diolch DByS ……. that's a great bit of kit …….I'm in about it.

Edited 15 February , 2020 by TullochArd

[Keith_history_buff]

Very useful to know of its existence. Many thanks Dai!

[Pat Atkins]

Thanks Dai, great resource.

 

Pat

[TullochArd]

Thanks to all. 

Fred Holden disappears off the 1911 Census.  So far it would appear that there is absolutely no evidence that Fred either (1) served in or (2) was killed in either the British Army or any ANZAC unit during the Great War.  I double checked the British Army entries as we have knowledge of at least one Rawtenstall "Australian" returning to join the British Army in 1915.  Nothing so far.

So ……. the newspaper story/letter could be a red herring or he served under an alias (not too common but not unheard of).  Initial obvious checks such as using Roscoe/Roscow (his mothers maiden name) have drawn a blank so far.

There is a long shot. 

There was a "Fred Holden - English" who sailed from Bremen, Germany to Melbourne on SS Chemnitz in 1912.  If this is the same Fred he might have had a seafaring connection and become a merchant sailor ……. and we do know that several Australian ships were torpedoed during the Gallipoli campaign.  His sister says he "joined the Colours" which usually means the Army or Navy, but perhaps not specifically so, and "in Egypt" could include Port Said or the port of Alexandria?

Mercantile Marine records are a "black art" at my stage but here goes.   Any further steers gratefully appreciated ! 

Edited 17 February , 2020 by TullochArd

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Had a look at civilian deaths for Fred/Frederick/R. 

Nothing really jumps out of the page no real exact age matches.

Surprisingly common name that way it seems.

Nothing obvious on CWGC database for 27-29 Yr Olds killed at Gallipoli.

2 Holdens, none matching.

 

Puzzle isn't he?

[DavidOwen]

If he had been Mercantile Marine wouldn't he have been on the Tower Hill Memorial?

 

Clutching at straws here but there was a Private Frederick Holden B Company 1/10 Manchester Regiment 2043 who was admitted to the HS Assaye suffering from bronchitis aged 27 on 26/11/1915. Now according to his MIC (which wasn't easy to find on Ancestry) he then became 598936 in the Labour Corps and was subsequently Dismissed? Looks like DIism...

 

Might he have returned to Australia and died there?

 

Probably just another red herring....

 

FMP link to medical record

Ancestry link to MIC

 

[DavidOwen]

Again, probably nothing more than a co-incidence from the Biggleswade Chronicle 2nd November 1917. (Could stories have been mixed up?)

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

A possibility  David, Theatre of War -3 on the MIC confirms Egypt as mentioned in the sister's letter 'early in the war'.

Entry into theatre is 5/11/1914.

But, he emigrated to Australia sometime before the war.

If he was in the Manchester Regiment, (and we don't know which battalion), I would imagine he'd have to enlist in the UK?

Is it plausible for him to get back from Australia, sign up, get trained, and get transported to Egypt within 3 months.

I'm guessing that his serial number 2043 is a very early one, although I haven't worked through all of Paul Nixon's excellent website:

 

https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/01/manchester-regiment-regular-special.html

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

There are intriguing similarities between Fred Holden, Rossendale, and Fred Holden, Bedfordshire, the latter of whom was brought to our attention yesterday.

Both emigrated to Australia, both ended up dying (supposedly) in Gallipoli, although CWGC only document the Bedfordshire man.

Both 28 (although cutting says Bedfordshire Fred was 27).

But different parents.

 

Edit: Although neither seem to appear on the 1911 Census, both appear in 1901 with their respective parents:

Bedfordshire

 

Lancashire

Edited 17 February , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[michaeldr]

If it helps then this is the record of the Bedfordshire Holden

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=4760868

Edited 17 February , 2020 by michaeldr

[Mark1959]

His baptism record spells his second name "Roscow". Baptism Waterfoot. This doc gives a DoB of 1/11/1886. 

There was a Frederick Holden Foster died on 9/10/1915. But he was Aussie born. Buried in Malta. 

Edited 17 February , 2020 by Mark1959

[DavidOwen]

So, not the Bedford one then.

[TullochArd]

Thanks David, Mark and Michael …… and very many diolchs Dai.

 

He's clearly not the Bedford man. Here's where I'm going next:

 

I have another pair of Rawtenstall brother fatalities that may provide similarities and, if not an eventual explanation, at least close a Mercantile Marine line of enquiry. The brothers are Harry and John FENTON.  Harry was a (UK) merchant mariner WT who is also named on two other local War Memorials. He was accidentally killed at sea in 1917 (Civilian war death Accident at Sea, crew member aboard Elmina, Lat. 9.12N 14.53W "Shock and concussion of the brain with intercranial haemorrhage". At 3 a.m. 10 May 1917 At sea, off the coast of West Africa Guinea). WW1 Mercantile Mariners are generally classed as "civilians" and seem to be hard to track.

 

As a "civilian"/non-enemy action death he has no IWGC/CWGC recognition and is not mentioned on the Tower Hill Memorial which commemorates those from the Merchant Navy and fishing fleets who died during both world wars and have "no grave but the sea".  He is also not shown on any medal rolls as Mercantile Mariners had to provide proof before the medal was granted....…..the British War Medal "will be given to those (British, Dominion, Colonial and Indian Mercantile Marine) who can supply such evidence as may be approved by the Board of Trade of having served at sea for not less than six months between the 4th August, 1914, and 11th November, 1918" or the Board of Trade Mercantile Marine Medal will "be granted to the persons specified in the previous paragraph, (British, Dominion, Colonial and Indian Mercantile Marine) who are qualified for the British War Medal, and who, in addition, can supply such evidence as may be approved by the Authorities referred to in that paragraph of having served at sea on at least one voyage through a danger zone." 

 

As Dai says "Puzzle isn't he?" 

 

The search moves on to Australian civil records/Australian mercantile marine records.

Edited 17 February , 2020 by TullochArd

[TullochArd]

I'd hoped to close the "possible AIF alias" component of this thread on a positive but this is not to be, largely due to that hardy research perennial, a lack of hard evidence. On this path I received some superb help from the National Library of Australia who provided me with several leads on researching AIF aliases.  The info seems too good not to share so I’ll post it under the topic “For info - Researching Aliases in the AIF – Informal guidance from the National Library of Australia”. 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

I suppose you've tried contacting the Holden community in the area to see if there are any leads from colloquial history?

[TullochArd]

Thanks Dai.  The local Holden family had moved on/died with the sister the only one surviving by the end of the War.  It's her account and gravestone that tells the story.  I'll check regarding possible surviving children from her. Nothing factual has turned up to so far to support the story other than pure speculation that he might have served under an Australian alias which cannot be proved.  The local Waterfoot/Cowpe history group worthies have also drawn a total blank on this one - other than relating the sister's account - and they regularly come out tops on the colloquial side.  Beyond eliminating the "Australian" mercantile marine civilian "Died at Sea" possibility (which I have yet to get to grips with) I've run out of road on this one. Not the first and certainly not the last!    

Edited 20 February , 2020 by TullochArd

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

That's a great shame.

I wonder how this story will end?

[DavidOwen]

Might it be possible that as stated earlier there was "no further contact" following his letter to his sister that death was merely presumed?

[TullochArd]

57 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

Might it be possible that as stated earlier there was "no further contact" following his letter to his sister that death was merely presumed?

 

Yes David, that's a very realistic possibility and it probably ranks as joint plausible alongside the "unidentified 'Australian' alias" theory.  Both outcomes will be likely inconclusive due to lack of evidence but I have to try.  That said, I've still not run to ground that outrageously rank outsider of a theory of an Australian mercantile mariner (therefore civilian) death at sea in support of operations in and around the Dardanelles …… I'm clinging on to that clue "Fred Holden - English" getting on a ship in Bremen for Melbourne in 1912 …. why would "Fred Holden - English" be the only foreigner on a ship in Bremen unless he was in some way connected to the sea? It might even explain his absence on the 1911 Census. Rearrange these words "at", "straws", "clutching"!

[DavidOwen]

I'm still searching too, haven't given up yet!