oldson Posted 14 February , 2020 Share Posted 14 February , 2020 Hello,wile clearing loft of my new house I found what I think is a ww1 German keple flare pistol am.i correct ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 14 February , 2020 Share Posted 14 February , 2020 a picture would help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldson Posted 14 February , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2020 Now with photo 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLD ROBIN HOOD Posted 14 February , 2020 Share Posted 14 February , 2020 Greetings from Sherwood Forest What you have is a German 1894 27mm Hebel Flare pistol used during WW1 . Under the current firearms laws it should be de-activated . Old Robin Hood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joolz Posted 15 February , 2020 Share Posted 15 February , 2020 (edited) If you're in the UK, and this is not deactivated, it is a Section 1 firearm. Take it immediately to a Registered Firearms Dealer, or failing that take it to the Police. If you hold on to it, even for a week or two, you face a mandatory 5 year sentence for illegal possession of a firearm. If you want to realise its value, make sure you make this clear. It is still your property if it was found in your property, and even if you are not permitted to own it, you can still have a dealer sell it on your behalf. There is no need for it to be destroyed, even though the Police will offer to 'get rid of it for you'. Many valuable war trophy guns have been chucked in the furnace because people haven't realised that the police's automatic offer to destroy it is not actually a legal requirement. It is yours, you can say what happens to it. Saying that, it is in pretty tatty condition..... Edited 15 February , 2020 by Joolz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thewebleyman Posted 15 February , 2020 Share Posted 15 February , 2020 I agree that you are not obliged to hand it over to the Police provided you dis[ode of it lawfully , ie give it to an RFD. You could then apply for FAC to keep it yourself if you wanted to , or sell it via the dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joolz Posted 15 February , 2020 Share Posted 15 February , 2020 Applying for an FAC for this gun is pretty much a waste of time. It is a Section 1 firearm and therefore you need a good reason to own it. Unless you are a mariner or your job requires you to own one, there is no good reason to own a live flare gun. You could own one on Section 7.1, but it would then have to be part of a collection. Your only options are: have the police destroy it, have an RFD deactivate it (this will involve a cost) then keep it, or have an RFD sell it on your behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 February , 2020 Share Posted 16 February , 2020 I have to admit I had never thought of Flare Guns as being prohibited weapons until I saw and followed this thread. Are Blunderbuses still legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 16 February , 2020 Share Posted 16 February , 2020 3 hours ago, trajan said: I have to admit I had never thought of Flare Guns as being prohibited weapons until I saw and followed this thread. Are Blunderbuses still legal? An antique muzzle loading blunderbuss doesn’t require a license to possess. Unless you want to fire it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 16 February , 2020 Share Posted 16 February , 2020 1 minute ago, peregrinvs said: An antique muzzle loading blunderbuss doesn’t require a license to possess. Unless you want to fire it. And if you did, you'd have to find a club that did a blunderbuss competition, for your Good Reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 February , 2020 Share Posted 16 February , 2020 Thanks chaps... I'll stick to bayonets - well, they are not entirely prohibited as of now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joolz Posted 16 February , 2020 Share Posted 16 February , 2020 And if you're a Prohibited Person, you can't even own antique or deactivated guns... You'd be surprised what guns you are still perfectly legally able to own and shoot here in the UK, few guns are totally prohibited, they tend to be extremely restricted instead, and require you to jump through more hoops, so to speak, in order to have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 16 February , 2020 Share Posted 16 February , 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, MikB said: And if you did, you'd have to find a club that did a blunderbuss competition, for your Good Reason... Or firing blanks for historical re-enactment. Although presumably if you actually wanted to fire a blunderbuss, you’d use a modern replica. Would the short barrel make it Section 1? Edited 16 February , 2020 by peregrinvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joolz Posted 17 February , 2020 Share Posted 17 February , 2020 If the barrel is less than 24" long, then it would be Section 1. We have the odd blunderbuss at our historical clay shoots, but they are modern replicas, on Section 2. Section 1 shotguns, in the UK, tend to be practical UKPSA shotguns or side-by-side coach guns for SASS 3-gun (cowboy action) shooting. Or barkers for re-enactors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 17 February , 2020 Share Posted 17 February , 2020 Idle theorising... Would there be any milage in arguing a WWI Hebel flare pistol would count as Section 58? Over 100 years old, ammunition no longer available, (I assume) etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 17 February , 2020 Share Posted 17 February , 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, peregrinvs said: Idle theorising... Would there be any milage in arguing a WWI Hebel flare pistol would count as Section 58? Over 100 years old, ammunition no longer available, (I assume) etc. I don't think 27mm signal is on the section 58 calibres list, and it would have to be for it to be applicable. Afternote: In fact they appear to be specifically excluded under Section 58(2) clause (f). Edited 17 February , 2020 by MikB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ServiceRumDiluted Posted 17 February , 2020 Share Posted 17 February , 2020 I'd always thought that the reason flare pistols were not on the obsolete calibre list was that they could be easily sleeved down to take a shotgun cartridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldson Posted 4 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 March , 2020 Okay will have to find a gun shop Shay will deactivate it,was going to ask mate to weld breaking mechanism up and bung barrel up presume this is what dealer will do ? Good start to my collection or ww1 artefacts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joolz Posted 4 March , 2020 Share Posted 4 March , 2020 (edited) The criteria for deactivating a flare gun of this type are laid out in UK law. Your RFD will need to: Grind off the 'firing pin' part of the hammer. Fill the firing pin hole in the frame with weld. Cut a slot along the length of the chamber of the barrel Weld a hardened steel pin crosswise across the chamber It will then need to be submitted to a proof house for stamping as a Section 8 deactivated firearm. It's actually quite a sympathetic process, compared to the brutal deactivation of rifles and handguns, as flare guns are treated differently. This has to be done by an RFD, not some mate of a mate. Cost would be around £80-£120+ depending on the RFD. HOWEVER - Be very careful, your latest post above is effectively an admission that you have been in possession of a Section 1 illegal firearm for at least the past few weeks. You run a very strong risk of a mandatory 5 year prison term. You should have immediately surrendered this illegal firearm to a RFD or the police, as per the advice you were given weeks ago. The longer you keep a hold of it, the more people you show it off to, the more you talk about it on social media, the greater the case for a police prosecution.... Edited 4 March , 2020 by Joolz Correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 5 March , 2020 Share Posted 5 March , 2020 If I were the original poster I would be inclined to delete all my posts and hand in the damn thing pronto..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joolz Posted 5 March , 2020 Share Posted 5 March , 2020 Wainfleet - Sage advice, unfortunately the OP obviously has difficulty taking good advice. There must be many RFDs, if not police stations, where this person lives. They have no problem taking in 'found' guns such as this, without any repercussions for the person handing it in (so long as it hasn't been used by them in a crime!). What the police really, really, don't like is people hanging on to stuff like this. Hand it in, right away. An RFD doesn't even need to tell the police where it came from, if that is your wish, and if you wanted to keep it, only they can arrange all of that for you, legally. Whatever you do, don't try and do a 'home' deactivation. You are not legally permitted to do the work on an unregistered firearm, and the end result will still not be legal to own. If you involve a mate to do the work, not only have they now broken the law, but you have further added a charge of transferring an unregistered firearm to an unauthorised person. You can't even chuck it away, as that is also against the law. The charges continue to pile up.... And now hundreds of complete strangers on the internet know all about your illegal activities…. Just take it to an authorised person, RFD or police, and get it sorted.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldson Posted 8 March , 2020 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2020 Will take it to registered RFD n have it deactivated as you can see from.picture it not in greatest condition good start to my collecting cheers for all help and advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 15 March , 2020 Share Posted 15 March , 2020 A bit late to comment, I know, but I do know of a village copper 'round my way years ago who had a shotgun handed in, and forgot to declare it and when he did he lost his job for the long delay. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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