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Remembered Today:

Samuel Whittaker Lancashire Fusiliers & MGC


Paul R.

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Hi, I am trying to find details about a SAMUEL WHITTAKER, whose medal card says he was a Private in the following regiments. My problem is, I can't find any enlistment record for a Samuel Whittaker in any of these regiments. When he married in Oct. 1918 it says he was a Civil Servant.

 

Can anyone tell me where he may have seen service with these regiments?

 

Machine Gun Corps 59949 Pvt.

Lancashire Fusiliers 35289 Pvt. 

Training Reserve Battalion Tr/6/16726

Royal Engineers 251729 3rd Battalion

 

Cheers!

Paul R.

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Paul, Welcome to the Forum.

 

I suggest that you have this post transferred to your own dedicated thread for him since it involves a number of different units. I will allert the Mods.

 

To get you started in the meantime there is, here on find my Past, a useful odd bit of paper noting he (251729) was posted to 355 E&M Company RE with effect some time in Aug 1917.

 

Elswhere on this forum there is a useful thread discussing this unit here

 

Charlie

 

Looking at this bit of paper on FMP it also tells us he was wounded (GSW fingers) 20/10/17 and admitted to 1/?? Field Ambulance same day.

 

 

further edit:

Looking at the Medal Roll on Ancestry the correct order of his overseas service was

 firstly Lancashire Fusiliers

then Trng Reserve Bn

then MGC

then RE

 

Edited by charlie962
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From the graph on this thread I'm estimating he was given his MGC number c Sept/Oct 1916 ?

 

2 hours ago, Paul R. said:

When he married in Oct. 1918 it says he was a Civil Servant.

That suggests he was discharged early. There may be a Pension Card that will become available later this year via the WesternFrontAssociation?

 

Can you give us a clue where he hailed from and when he was born?

 

I didn't notice a Silver War Badge Roll entry for him but there ought to be one.

 

 

The exercise you have to do, in the absence of his own service record, is to look for service records for men with close numbers to see if you can spot a pattern. At the time the numbers were issued there would be similarities but subsequently they may have followed very different service paths.

 

Charlie

 

Edited by charlie962
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Hi Charlie, many thanks for your reply.

 

I am doing this for a friend, but SAMUEL WHITTAKER apparently lost an eye in the war, probably why he was discharged early. 

 

He was born 24th Oct 1892 in Farnworth near Bolton, Lancs. His wife was called Louie May Hankinson, although as they were married in 1918 I don't imagine she will help in locating him in army records. His father was called Thomas Whittaker.

 

I have found census info pre war (1911) that says he was an 'Accounts Clerk'. I had wondered if he had gone from regiment to regiment as a clerk rather than a frontline soldier, but I am just guessing. 

 

Cheers

Paul R.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Paul R. said:

Hi David, 

 

That's incredible. Never seen that before. I'm showing my ignorance here... what does it mean? And, is that 355th B. & M. Co.??

 

Now you are asking....

 

Hopefully someone with better knowledge than me will be along to answer those questions for you. However, looking closely I think it may be "E & M"

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Thank you Michael.

 

I have made more progress on this website in one day, than I have trawling the net over the last 12 months! :-)

 

Thank you all.

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Sorry David, I was replying to Charlie for pointing out post 2 that I missed. I must have pressed something by mistake that linked you in. I'm still learning! :blush:

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1 minute ago, Paul R. said:

Sorry David, I was replying to Charlie for pointing out post 2 that I missed. I must have pressed something by mistake that linked you in. I'm still learning! :blush:

No worries if was my error in having missed his earlier link.

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38 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

having missed his earlier link.

 Thanks for having trf'd this thread.

 

I've suggested a trf to MGC c end Sep/early Oct 1916 and I think this is correct from looking at near numbers.

 

Looking at his Lancs Fus number it appears to have been issued about 12/7/16. Similar service numbers have this date having been called up or mobilised from the Reserve and posted to 13th Lancs Fusiliers. They are then all transferred to the 15th Training Battalion on 1/9/16 and are issued with a new service number T/6/........

After a period there they go different ways.

 

I'm going to suggest there is an error on the Medal Roll for Whittaker in that his Lancs Fusiliers and Training Battalion time I think were all served in UK and should not appear on the Roll. Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

 

So I'm assuming he was posted direct from the 15th Trng Bn to MGC and then issued with his new MGC number. Exactly when he went overseas I don't know. But it could easily have been late Oct 1916 after a period with the 3 MGC depot at Clipstone ?

 

I'm still puzzled by that 'civil servant' job on his marriage cert for Oct 1918. Early discharge from the Army should have triggered an Silver War Badge(not found) and maybe even a pension claim (records not available till later this year)

 

Charlie

Edited by charlie962
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4 hours ago, Paul R. said:

SAMUEL WHITTAKER apparently lost an eye in the war, probably why he was discharged early.

I find his name as wounded in the Daily Casualty List of 3/12/17 but no other. Given the delay in reporting in these Casualty Lists I suspect this relates to his injury I noted above of 20/10/17- GSW fingers. The eye loss may have been an accident ?

 

charlie

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Quote

I'm still puzzled by that 'civil servant' job on his marriage cert for Oct 1918. Early discharge from the Army should have triggered an Silver War Badge(not found) and maybe even a pension claim (records not available till later this year)

 

Class W or Class P wouldn't though - they were 'released' to civilian work without a SWB discharge.


Craig

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7 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

Class W or Class P wouldn't though - they were 'released' to civilian work without a SWB discharge

Thanks, Craig. But if he'd lost an eye that would still make him eligible for something ?

 

(I actually don't know what class W or P are but will now search !)  LLT here comes to the rescue. I note pension entitlement ?

 

charlie

Edited by charlie962
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4 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Thanks, Craig. But if he'd lost an eye that would still make him eligible for something ?

 

(I actually don't know what class W or P are but will now search !)  LLT here comes to the rescue. I note pension entitlement ?

 

charlie

On discharge a pension could be claimed by a man on the basis of any injury or disability (even if he wasn't released on medical grounds). The Class P criteria was that a man would be entitled to a pension as part of the discharge process but Class W did not have that criteria.


There's no ledger so it could have been weeded (presumably he was still in Region 3 - Lancashire). The cards, when issued, might help by showing if there was a claim.

Craig

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Gentlemen, I can't thank you all enough for sharing all of this information regards Samuel Whittaker. His great grandson, is thrilled to have this information. He will probably join the forum soon to thank you himself.

 

I've attached details from his marriage record from October 1918 that shows Sam's occupation as 'Civil Servant'. 

 

 

Marriage - Civil Servant.png

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