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Hett65

QMS T. Hodgson MSM MID, KRRC

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Hett65

In the Spennymoor Urban District war memorial Book of Remembrance there is recorded that Q.M.S. T. Hodgson KRR was awarded the MSM and was twice Mentioned in Despatches during the war. A newspaper article also reports that on the 20 February 1920 at the Town Hall, Spennymoor; along with other gallantry recipients he was presented with his MSM, and also a watch from the Gallantry Fund.

I have tried to find his MSM and MID awards in the London Gazettes without success, can anyone on the forum assist me with this task.

John

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EDWARD1

I have only found a T Hodgson KRRC R8304 in the medal award rolls 1914/15 Star. Embarked(1) 19/5/15 Class Z 7/4/19

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Hett65

Edward 1

Thanks for that information, it appears strange that he was awarded three gallantry awards but I have found it difficult to trace these in the Gazettes, I will try now with the information you have given me.

John

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Ron Clifton

Hello John

 

MIDs were simply lists of names, ranks, regiments and numbers appended to one of the C-in-C's despatches. They were not listed individually in the same way that MMs and DCMs were.

 

However, there should be a separate Gazette entry for the MSM.

 

Ron

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MaxD

Odd that his BW and V medal roll entry (as well as his Star) show his rank as Private.  I know a man can hold higher ranks but QMS for a Pte? and ostensibly by Feb 1920.

 

Max

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Ron Clifton

The rank on the BWM and VM should be the highest reached in a theatre of operations on or before 11 November 1918. He may have been promoted QMS after that date, or when back in the UK.

 

Ron

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MaxD

Thank you Ron.  HIs R/ number suggests a new army man, near numbers suggesting 8 Battalion, who went overseas (as he did) in May 1915.  A Thomas Hodgson is in Spennymoor aged 6 in 1901 - perhaps him (there are others)?

 

So, returns from overseas before 11 Nov 1918 as a private and gains promotion 4 ranks up by Feb 1920.  Still seems odd?

 

Max

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Hett65

Thanks to all who have contributed to my query. I know I have found a number of incorrect entries in the Spennymoor Book of Remembrance so he may not have been a QMS, however the newspaper article also refers to  him as a QMS, (and I know they made a great number of mistakes).  At present I am stuck on this one.

John

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Allergill

"A newspaper article also reports that on the 20 February 1920 at the Town Hall, Spennymoor; along with other gallantry recipients he was presented with his MSM, and also a watch from the Gallantry Fund"

Are you able to tell me anymore about this event/newspaper article. I'm researching a Thomas Clough who also received the MSM. There's a letter dated Feb 1919 from E.O. Dunn, secretary of Spennymoor Gallantry fund asking for T. Clough's the medal as "we are wanting if for presentation by the Chairman of the Urban Council". I wondered if it could be the same event?

Thanks, Jackie

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Hett65

Jackie 

While researching Spennymoor men in the Great War, I found the following information on Thomas Clough.

 

Auckland Chronicle 9 January 1919.

Reports that Co. Sgt Maj. T. Clough, Army Gymnastic Staff, had been awarded the Meritorious Service Medal for Italy. Thomas Clough, a native of Page Bank, was teaching at King Street Boys' School (Spennymoor) when the war broke out, and was living at 25 Carlton Terrace, Spennymoor.  he joined 12/Yorks. Reg. as Private 20008 on 20 January 1915, and was granted a Physical Training Certificate at Aldershot on 27 March. Then on 8 December he was appointed Acting Sergeant Instructor 811 with the Army Gymnasium Staff. He served in France and Italy from October 1916 to January 1919, achieving the rank of Company Sergeant Major Instructor, and was twice decorated; Meritorious Service Medal (London Gazette 1 January 1919), and the Italian Croce di Guerra (London Gazette 5 January 1919). After demobilisation he returned to teaching on 13 January 1919, and lived at 57 Clyde Terrace, Spennymoor.

 

Presentation of medals and gifts. At Spennymoor Town Hall on 13 March 1919, a presentation of medals and gifts to Spennymoor heroes took place. The presentation, made by Mr Wm. Fleming, was preceded by music from the Sons of Temperance Prize Band, and songs.

The recipients were:  List all men awarded and included; CSM Thomas Clough Yorks  MSM & Italian CDG

(It does not list who was presented with what, medal or gift, but it is possible this is where he received his medals)

 

Final ceremony of Gallantry Fund.

A public meeting was held in the Town Hall on 20 February 1920; it was to be the final ceremony in connection with the Gallantry Fund for the Urban District.  Coun. Rhymer, in handing over the gifts to decorated local men, said 'the town was proud of all those who had served. 'The recipients were.

Lists seven names but not T. Clough.

 

Hope this is of interest.

John

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Ivor Anderson

I cannot find a QMS T. Hodgson KRRC in ancestry or in the LG either.

As well as the previously mentioned Pte. Thomas Hodgson, 2nd Bn. KRRC, R8304 who embarked (1) 19/5/15, Class Z 7/4/19, there was a Pte. Thomas H. Hodgson, 4th Bn. KRRC, R/19376.

Ian McInnes book on MSM Intermediate Awards 1916-1928 lists no MSM awards for a T. Hodgson during 1919-1920, other than an Australian ASC in Q1 1919. There was a CSM A. Hodgson in Q1 1919. There was a QMS W. J. Hodgkinson in Q2 1919, a CQMS W. Hodgkinson in Q3 1919, and one Pte. (A/Sgt.) S. J. Hodgson RAMC in Q1 1920. Addition: also a Pte. (L/Cpl) Thomas Hodgson 240386, 5th Bn. Yorkshire Regt. (from Goathland. Yorkshire) in LG 31132 17 January 1919.

 

Whoever got presented with the MSM on 20 February 1920 at the Town Hall, Spennymoor, must have had their details inaccurately recorded.

For him to have been presented with a watch as well as his medal makes me wonder whether it was a DCM or MM that he got, as very few MSMs were awarded for gallantry, and those were not for action in the face of the enemy.

Edited by Ivor Anderson
Additional information

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Hett65

Ivor

Thanks for your input, I have still not traced any other information on this man. There were two other Thomas Hodgson's who lived in Spennymoor but they were both killed in action.

I am not sure he was awarded the medal for gallantry, I think his name was amongst men who had been awarded medals for gallantry and the Spennymoor Gallantry Fund just added all the names together.

John

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Ivor Anderson

Hi John,

It's an interesting puzzle. Do the details of the other men who got awards at the presentation check out?

It's unlikely that more than one of his details would be wrong as these were local men who were probably known in the area.

The medals would also have been officially inscribed. Was this in a local paper?

I found one more Thomas Hodgson who got the MSM. There are very few possible MSM candidates

Thomas Hodgson (no. 1839, 5th Bn. and 240386 9th Bn.) Yorkshire Regt. (from Goathland, Yorkshire) in LG 31132, 17 January 1919. Discharged 5-3-1919. 

MSM & MIC cards off Ancestry: https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1262&h=3528156&tid=&pid=&queryId=b7b1046b64fb2a783ca5a25c3c26db8c&usePUB=true&_phsrc=AHE1860&_phstart=successSource

Ivor

Screen Shot 2020-08-03 at 17.14.02.png

Screen Shot 2020-08-03 at 17.08.19.png

Edited by Ivor Anderson

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Ivor Anderson

Another possibility is that the MSM presented to T. Hodgson in 1920 was not a WW1 immediate award for war service, but a traditional long service MSM for previous service (limited by number due to an annuity) such as this one awarded in 1918, which does not seem to appear in the LG either. It also appears that many old soldiers were engaged as training instructors during WW1 and were given temporary 'acting' senior NCO ranks.

 

Screen Shot 2020-08-03 at 05.02.14.png

Edited by Ivor Anderson
Additional information

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Hett65

Ivor

The other gallantry holders mentioned in the newspaper articles were correct and I found their details in the Gazettes, Hodgson's is the only one I cannot trace. His name is also recorded in a Book of Remembrance 1914 - 1919 published by Spennymoor UDC; details recorded as Q.M.S T. Hodgson K.R.R    MSM. Twice Mentioned in Despatches.

John

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