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Albert Bowler

Uniform/Medal Identification

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Albert Bowler

Hi,

 can anyone please help identify who this old officer in uniform might be please. I recognise most of the medals but not the uniform. From the medals, uniform & signature could anyone shine any light onto who it might be or at least what regiment he was from.

20200131_104431.jpg

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ForeignGong

Hi 

At neck I think it is a KCMG, on chest L to R, DSO, not sure, QSA, KSA, 14 Star, 1911 Coro, French Legion of Honour

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Is the signature Curtice?

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aim

The second medal could be a British South Africa Company's Medal - I believe there were three versions with the name of the appropriate campaign at the top of the reverse.

 

If he has the Star I would have expected the British War and Victory medals, but officers had to apply for these so perhaps he thought he'd got enough medals (or indeed those medals hadn't been issued when the photograph was taken).

 

aim

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Milner

I think his rank is lieutenant colonel by the epaullets on his uniform. Not sure which regiment though.

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Coldstreamer

my thoughts

 

CMG

DSO

BSA

QSA

KSA

1914 OR 15 star

1911  Durbar -  Im sure they are larger than the 1911 medal ?

Legion dnonneur

Edited by Coldstreamer

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Coldstreamer

Albert, what do you think they are?

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FROGSMILE

There are a few clues to his identity, but I can’t make out the signature. His rank is Lieutenant Colonel as stated, and the aiguillette festooned from his shoulder indicates that he is an aide-de-camp to a senior personage (general officer, member of Royal Family, or representative of the Sovereign (e.g. GG of a Dominion)).  His collar facing is of velvet, but there is no collar badge.  The corps that had velvet facings were the Dragoon Guards (in various colours), the Royal Engineers (in dark blue but with a grenade collar badge), the RAMC (cherry with a wreathed collar badge), Indian Medical Service (in black but with a collar badge), the Army Veterinary Corps (in maroon) and the Queens Own (Royal West Kent) Regiment (in black with a collar badge).  The shoulder cords appear to be of the ‘universal’ pattern used by the infantry and, of those mentioned above, just the medical and veterinary services.  By elimination then, on balance it seems that the most likely corps is one of the latter, although the white piping at the top and front of the collar does not fit with that.

 

 

 

Edited by FROGSMILE

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Milner

Op, Can we see more of the signature, the first part is "yours Ever" which has been shortend. The signature is slightly cropped, but could the first bit be "Sir".

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aim

My first thought was that the signature might begin Rev.

 

Second thought Rusell Curbet.

 

aim

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Coldstreamer

I have debretts 1924 edition - assuming the DSO was awarded before the book was drafted (its very likely its ww1 or before) 

 

no one called Curbet in the companionage section

Im surprised by this year he hasnt got the war and victory medal

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angelab

Anything on the back, to give photographer name and location?

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Coldstreamer

I have a possible in 

Maj Gen TA Cubitt 

 

due a medal Lapai and Anam 1898  - what medal is that ??

ignore him  - no clasp on the medal so irrelevant 

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Coldstreamer

I think i have it

R H L CUTBILL

medals match - standby for more info

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Coldstreamer

From Debretts 1924

 

P1110532.JPG

 

Edited by Coldstreamer

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Coldstreamer

maybe as in India his medals where in the post  !

24 minutes ago, aim said:

My first thought was that the signature might begin Rev.

 

Second thought Rusell Curbet.

 

aim

 

credit due for pointing me in right direction

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Milner

From the London Gazzette 1896

 

4/A Battalion, the Royal Irish Rifles, The under-mentioned Second Lieutenants to be Lieutenants:—H. F. Montgomery. Dated 19th August,1896. R. H. L. Cutbill. Dated 19th August, 1896.

 

 

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Coldstreamer

Him being Indian based explains my theory on the Durbar medal

 

if its not him I will eat my bearskin!

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Milner

I think you have identified him Coldstream, well done that man.

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Coldstreamer

He was Indian Army in 1911/12 which explains the Durbar IMHO

 

2 minutes ago, Milner said:

I think you have identified him Coldstream, well done that man.

 

team effort

Edited by Coldstreamer

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Milner

And a picture in "The Lord Roberts Memorial Fund Stamp album collection" over 130 stamps in the Lord Roberts collection.

cutbill.jpg

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BullerTurner
On 01/02/2020 at 11:22, FROGSMILE said:here are a few clues to his identity, but I can’t make out the signature. His rank is Lieutenant Colonel as stated, and the aiguillette festooned from his shoulder indicates that he is an aide-de-camp to a senior personage (general officer, member of Royal Family, or representative of the Sovereign (e.g. GG of a Dominion)).  His collar facing is of velvet, but there is no collar badge.  The corps that had velvet facings were the Dragoon Guards (in various colours), the Royal Engineers (in dark blue but with a grenade collar badge), the RAMC (cherry with a wreathed collar badge), Indian Medical Service (in black but with a collar badge), the Army Veterinary Corps (in maroon) and the Queens Own (Royal West Kent) Regiment (in black with a collar badge).  The shoulder cords appear to be of the ‘universal’ pattern used by the infantry and, of those mentioned above, just the medical and veterinary services.  By elimination then, on balance it seems that the most likely corps is one of the latter, although the white piping at the top and front of the collar does not fit with that.

 

 

 

I think the “white piping” is actually a “patrol collar” - a detachable shirt collar worn under certain orders of dress.  And a bloody nuisance too! Especially on a hot day in blues!

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FROGSMILE
On 02/02/2020 at 20:17, BullerTurner said:

I think the “white piping” is actually a “patrol collar” - a detachable shirt collar worn under certain orders of dress.  And a bloody nuisance too! Especially on a hot day in blues!


No I’m confident it’s not a patrol collar, Buller, although I can see why you thought of it (like you, it seems, I’ve worn them under blue patrol jacket collars).  They protrude over only the top edge.
Conversely, the white piping shown in his photograph also runs down the front of the collar join and then extends down the edge of the tunic join (as is normal), of which you can see the first few inches before it becomes obscured by the beginnings of his aiguillette cords.


Although an RASC officer (assuming that it is ‘Cutbill) he is not wearing an RASC (blue with white collar and cuffs) tunic.  It is a slight puzzle, but I believe that the tunic is scarlet with blue collar, which suggests that he must be wearing a post 1902 pattern uniform of the British-‘Indian Staff Corps’ (worn by British Indian Army (European) officers not at regimental duty, without collar badges - it was a standard infantry pattern uniform, but with dark blue facings as standard, and no collar badges).  If we can trace his career post WW1 it ought to be possible to ascertain what his role and associated uniform relates to.

 

NB.  Prior to 1902 each of the presidencies in India (Bengal, Bombay, Madras) had discrete Staff Corps whose uniforms differed only in buttons and waist belt clasp.  But after Kitchener’s unification implementation of 1902 a single uniform was adopted as shown below.

 

 

F7FF19E2-686B-42F2-A46D-77EABC5958C4.jpeg

 

98571237-AD08-41BE-B5F1-8282BCE67C8B.jpeg

1AC141CA-5D1E-48E9-BBF9-1D330ADD8EBD.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE

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Coldstreamer

I do wonder sometimes if people that ask questions even know or look to see the answers we provide....

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