Captains Meyricke Entwisle Lloyd and William Geoffrey Vyvyan, 1st Bn. Royal Welsh Fusiliers

[LDT006]

A report has been submitted to CWGC regarding the burial location of these officers. 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1619172/lloyd,-meyricke-entwisle/

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/484975/vyvyan,-william-geoffrey/

I could not find their service records for further information, it looks as these didn't survive. Maybe someone has more information?

 

A very brief summary of the report and some documents:

 

The war diary of the 1st Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers for the fighting at Broodseinde on October 20 and 21, mentions Capt. Lloyd as “Reported Killed”
and Capt. Vyvyan as “Missing”.

Both have an entry in the ICRC records on PA530  showing that Capt. Lloyd and Capt. Vyvyan died of wounds in a German field hospital as prisoners of war. They were buried in a field grave at Droogenbroodhoek and Passendale, these locations are close to each other and to the east of Broodseinde where the German field hospitals were located.

Those field graves, from the north of Beselare including parts of the territory of Moorslede and Passendale, were concentrated by the Germans to their cemetery "In de Ster". This was a cemetery that was created for this concentration purpose and not used anymore after this.

53 bodies of British soldiers, who died in October and November 1914, were moved from the German cemetery “In de Ster” to Oosttaverne Wood Cemetery in January 1924, including two Unknown British Captains of the “R.W.Fus.”, who were identified by “G.B. List, 3 Stars, Regtl. Buttons.”. They are buried in graves 1.H.22 and 1.H.23.

Other Captains from the Royal Welsh Fusiliers., without a known grave, can be excluded because they died to far away from the burial location.

Captain W. Vincent from the 3rd Bn.Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry is the only Captain that was attached to the 1st Bn. Royal Welsh Fusiliers without a known grave, he died on 30 November 1914 at Zillebeke. This is also to far away from the burial location.

 

 

 

 

Locations where the other Captains were killed:

 

JH Brennan	19/10/14	28.L.25 Kezelberg
ME Lloyd	24/10/14	28.D.23 Broodseinde
WG Vyvyan	24/10/14	28.D.23 Broodseinde
RV Barker	31/10/14	28.I.23 Zillebeke
BD Johns	17/02/16	28.I.34 The Bluff
WP Griffits	30/03/16	28.I.34 The Bluff
T Hughes	01/04/16	28.I.34 The Bluff
C Nichols	31/07/17	28.C.3 Steenbeek Pilkem
HS Roberts	27/08/17	28.C.3 Steenbeek Pilkem
E Coster	26/09/17	28.J.15 Menin road – Polygon
JC Mann	26/09/17	28.J.15 Menin road – Polygon

 

 

 

[Ron da Valli]

There is also the confusion over the man originally buried as Captain Meyricke Lloyd. During the reinterral in 1924 the body believed to be him was found to be several inches taller than he was and subsequently he was buried as an "unknown". 

[LDT006]

You are referring to grave 14.B.17 at Harlebeke New British Cemetery who was "Believed to be Capt. M.E. Lloyd" and later changed to Unknown British Officer.

This is why I researched who was in that grave and why it wasn't Capt. M.E. Lloyd.

 

I did not include this in the post above because it would be too complex.

Grave 14.B.17 at Harlebeke New British Cemetery has the remains of Captain John Henry Brennan, 1st Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, date of death: 19 October 1914.

He was killed during the attack on Menin on 19 October 1914 and is mentioned in the war diary for that date. The Germans concentrated his field grave to Gheluwe German Cemetery in trench graves with 25 other soldiers who died that day. The report for Capt. Brennan is ready and will be submitted soon.

The reports for Lloyd and Brennan have the details of this confusion with details from a British researcher using family records of Capt. Lloyd. 

The service files would have been of great help but they seem to be lost, do you have something more?

 

Luc.

 

 

 

[Ron da Valli]

There is this report from North Kilworth Newsletter:https://issuu.com/771629/docs/nk_news_december_2014/4

If I find anything that I think may help you I will post it here. 

Good luck with your efforts to get these men recognised.

Darryl

[LDT006]

Thanks Darryl,

 

I did find that article a while back and have also found the original publication where it was based on. It seems that family records have been used which contained the correspondence with  IWGC regarding his burial location.

The service files for Capt. Lloyd and Vyvyan seem to be lost, it would be very helpfull to find these original documents but no luck so far.

 

The service file for Capt. Brennan is available but it doesn't contain physical descriptions like height, colour of hair, etc.. which would support his report.

I am sure that there is enough evidence in all these cases to convince all normal human beings on this planet but will have to wait years to know if CWGC and JCCC accepts these...

 

Regards,

Luc.

 

 

[Ron da Valli]

Hi Luc,

       I agree with you with regard to the CWGC. Their decision making seems very strange. Just look at the John Kipling debate.

[laughton]

Good work Luc - as always! Did you ask Mike about the service records?

 

As for the CWGC process, we will never know. I have a December 2016 report approved at all levels and scheduled for commemoration this year, yet reports from December 2014 have never even been reviewed? Someone is picking which ones they want to look at - but on what basis?

[Guest]

My post removed by me.

Edited 15 February , 2020 by Guest

[LDT006]

This is the first time that I could not find their officer service files (I am using a private company to get copies of these).

It would be very interesting to find something for Captain Lloyd because there was a lot of communication between his wife and IWGC regarding his burial location as mentioned in the ISSUU article (linked above).

Is it possible that this correspondence is filed somewhere else?

[Guest]

On 13/02/2020 at 13:59, LDT006 said:

 

 

 Post removed by me.

 

Edited 15 February , 2020 by Guest
update info

[AOK4]

Hello,

I have stumbled upon extra information concerning Captain M. E. Lloyd and Captain Vyvyan. They were both buried by Reserve Sanitäts Kompagnie 52. Waight is another RWF now commemorated in Bedford Hous but probably buried in Oosttaverne.

Did you see this topic?

Jan

[LDT006]

Jan,

great find, wish I had this information at the time of the report. Do they specify the exact location? The ICRC records have a different one, Passchendaele and Droogenbroodhoek.

PA530 lists 5 soldiers at these 2 locations, is there  anything for Weedon or Osborne?

I must have seen the other topic during my research because I googled for weeks, will contact you for a copy if the case should be rejected.

Thanks, Luc.

 

[Chesterboy]

CWGC case no 644 

barker & Brennan 

CWGC case no 660 

Lloyd & Vyvyan 

both cases relate to Oosttaverne Wood cemetery I.H. 22 & 23

 

cwgc case no 656B 

Harlebeke New British Cemetery- XIV.B.17 - Brennan 

So it will be interesting to see the outcome of this as two different researchers, give two different people in the same grave

[LDT006]

I have seen that case 644 in the CWGC list before and wonder who submitted that, there is quite some evidence that this is not correct:

Case 660, Oosttaverne Wood Cemetery,  I. H. 22 & 23, Captain Meyricke Entwisle Lloyd & Captain William Geoffrey Vyvyan is the case for this thread that I have submitted.

There are 2 reports for the same case 656B Harlebeke New British Cemetery- XIV.B.17 Captain John Henry Brennan, one from another researcher and one from me.

It will probably take another 2 years before the outcome of these cases is known...............