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assafx

Need help identifying tins

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assafx

Hello everyone,

 

Three years ago i took part in an excavation near the city of Ramla, Israel, managed by my colleague Roni Toueg.

The excavation uncovered a refuse pit 2m in diameter and about the same in depth and  30 meters from the pit, the remains of a brunet building were unearth.

you can read about it in this thread:

 

it took three years but we are now near the end of processing the finds and the start of this excavation report.

During the excavation I uncovered a large amount of Tins that were arranged near the stone wall of this structure.

Since most of them were crumbling and in very poor condition, we did not expect to see anything on them after a fire and 100 years in the ground, so we only picked a few dozens.

To my surprise, last month i was able to see some marks on a few tins, while i was photographing them last month.

Since both of us have any knowledge in this subject we hope some of you might help us identifying these tins.

 

1.

DSC_7688.jpg.5ed7f8dbce323c2b642ef32dbfa3345c.jpg

 

 

2. To my astonishment part of the label survived a fire and a 100 years in the ground:

 

DSC_7697.jpg.a8601c018a3044f5970cddc7228fb88f.jpg

 

 

Thank You,

Assaf

 

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assafx

3. a photograph from our metal lab.

 

OI000017.JPG

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GWF1967

Hi,

 I think they are tobacco tins. No.1appears to be made by W.D & H.O Wills Ltd. of Bristol. 

57634B68-B3D9-494B-8EB0-62A47F5EE9BB.jpeg

Edited by GWF1967

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assafx

wow, this is fantastic.

We assume that not all of them are tobbaco, we have shoe polish (guessed by shape and size) and food.

hopefully tomorrow i will have some more studio photographs of the tins.

we have all kinds only most of them are in bad shape and only in 4-5 we had inscriptions or labels.

Thank you !

Assaf

 

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assafx

Here are a few more images:

 

4. this is view of part of the "tins section" next to the wall.

It was taken before the tins were excavated and taken out (they were stacked 4-5 rows high):

2.jpg.71f789dd9bb2f230beda3992b7c4f09d.jpg

 

5: these are the ones that were preserved the most in a group shot. some still with their burnt contents:

PC180001.jpg.467baa82fe965b1d2ca4c03125625971.jpg

 

6: another teen with more details on the inside:

DSC_8684.jpg.e66f084ff18fe79044071636d94d8960.jpg

DSC_8686.jpg.e9fad63d41393d163a57a48940a07ff4.jpg

 

 

Assaf

 

Edited by assafx

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assafx

We also had other finds that we need help identifying:

 

7: one of these two mugs had manufacturer symbol that we could not id yet:

P1130013.jpg.07e682b9c84690da541e6872e3a61f06.jpg

DSC_8678.jpg.1fc7378f42d8d29afac8b5a54a2a50ac.jpg

 

8: a cooking device?

DSC_7655.jpg.cd33469441a353eb743f86eca9ce9764.jpgDSC_7657.jpg.cd38094999a0dabed50bf5c64d4e4090.jpgDSC_7660.jpg.05797a0819a5848a8c5b21c93d219342.jpg

 

Thank you,

Assaf

 

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assafx
8 minutes ago, depaor01 said:

No. 7 logo is Ker brand enamel ware from Sweden

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/UruHiSJiCjEkABmj7

 

Dave

Thank you

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petwes

It's a complete guess but could the last item be from a paraffin pressure lamp?

 

Peter

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tootrock
11 minutes ago, petwes said:

It's a complete guess but could the last item be from a paraffin pressure lamp?

That or some sort of blowlamp. The bodies of these were typically made of brass, hence the good condition of the item.

Martin

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assafx
14 minutes ago, petwes said:

It's a complete guess but could the last item be from a paraffin pressure lamp?

 

Peter

Peter,

It might be, i will try to search and see.

 

Thank You,

Assaf

Edited by assafx

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assafx
3 minutes ago, tootrock said:

That or some sort of blowlamp. The bodies of these were typically made of brass, hence the good condition of the item.

Martin

it is brass, i need to find an image after the metal lab did some cleaning.

will a few images of the bottom and the top parts will help?

 

Assaf

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petwes

A couple of things bothered me about my guess.

There only seems to be one screwed opening at the top. I would have expected two, one for the pressure pump and another for a filling cap.

What is the pipe coming out of the side?

The two projections at the base; are they solid pins? In which case could they be for mounting on a swivel stand?

Maybe it's a floodlight?

Peter

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assafx

one of the ideas that we had in mind, other then a cooking device, was a water heating device like a samovar.

To make matters worse, the cleaning showed that there is no inscription on this device.

i'm attaching two more photographs of its upper and lower parts:

DSC_7665.jpg.1afcd06d42aab1b45c91c07ea8d4054e.jpg

 

DSC_7664.jpg

Edited by assafx

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NigelS

No. 8 - the cooking device. 

 

The fact that the base of this item is swaged rather than just simply soldered, to me, indicates that it is intended to be pressurised. A blowlamp or Tilley type lamp has previously mentioned, but how about an acetylene/carbide/miners type lamp?   A search on Google images using any of these as the search term finds all shapes and sizes of this type of lamp with a gas container of a similar construction.

 

NigelS

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petwes

I'm not sure about a carbide light as I think most of them have a means of splitting the pressure pot to remove spent carbide and refill it; although the pipe at the side could be for the water feed.

If (big if) it is a paraffin pressure device It would be interesting to know if the top central hole is threaded and whether it matches the separate pipe shown in one of the earlier photos.  I think I see a shallow depression around this central hole which is where methylated spirits would typically be lit to prime the vapouriser.

The central corroded hole with cracking in the base is intriguing.  I wonder if this is due to a combination of galvanic and stress corrosion due to the wire gauze from the vapouriser dropping into the vessel. I wonder if it was excavated in an upright position?

Peter

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pierssc

No.2 looks like .. IXED as in MIXED something (fruit jam?)

 

EDIT Possibly this?

 

http://www.tommyspackfillers.com/showitem.asp?itemRef=RL487

 

Actually the typeface looks better on this:

 

RL256_01.jpg

 

This website may be useful

 

http://www.tommyspackfillers.com/ration.asp

 

Edited by pierssc

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assafx
1 hour ago, pierssc said:

No.2 looks like .. IXED as in MIXED something (fruit jam?)

 

EDIT Possibly this?

 

http://www.tommyspackfillers.com/showitem.asp?itemRef=RL487

 

Actually the typeface looks better on this:

 

RL256_01.jpg

 

This website may be useful

 

http://www.tommyspackfillers.com/ration.asp

 

Thank you for the link, it looks like a great source and it will be great to look at the different labels.

its hard to tell the size of the jam tins but they seem larger then the one i posted. as far as i recall, the diameter should be around 7-8 cm.

The problem is that I forgot to take measurements and i'm currently on a long sick leave from work, recovering from a surgery.

 

Assaf

 

 

 

 

Edited by assafx

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assafx
1 hour ago, petwes said:

I'm not sure about a carbide light as I think most of them have a means of splitting the pressure pot to remove spent carbide and refill it; although the pipe at the side could be for the water feed.

If (big if) it is a paraffin pressure device It would be interesting to know if the top central hole is threaded and whether it matches the separate pipe shown in one of the earlier photos.  I think I see a shallow depression around this central hole which is where methylated spirits would typically be lit to prime the vapouriser.

The central corroded hole with cracking in the base is intriguing.  I wonder if this is due to a combination of galvanic and stress corrosion due to the wire gauze from the vapouriser dropping into the vessel. I wonder if it was excavated in an upright position?

Peter

Peter,

We had thousands of finds and its hard to track how they were found, The Tins were an exception because they were stacked next to a wall.

We assume, because we had remains of charred wooden beams and a large amount of nails, that the stone wall and rooms were part of the foundation of a wooden structure.

The structure was burned, as we suspect by accident, and then collapsed. most of the finds were lying around in a mixed way.

we had ammunition (some of cartridges exploded by the fire), and RFC swagger stick head, RE shoulder badge, silverware, plates, mugs, tins, buttons, buckles, telegraph wire, corks, alcohol bottles, souses, medicine and other bottles, watches, salt shakers, shaving cream, tooth paste, tooth brush, webbing buckles, horse shoes and more items.

Usually in excavation each excavated area collects finds in a bucket. in the case of the glass bottles, we had the workers filling wheelbarrows !

 

as far as i recall we don't have threads in the central hole and the tube was found next to the device and that's why they were kept together.

we never tried to see if it fits the hole and we shell check it. there is threading on the top left hole.

 

regarding the bottom hole, we need to reinspect it to see if its fire damage or an excavation damage (we have an SRD like jug, that was intact and now have a pick axe hit on :( )

Assaf

Edited by assafx

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assafx
8 hours ago, NigelS said:

No. 8 - the cooking device. 

 

The fact that the base of this item is swaged rather than just simply soldered, to me, indicates that it is intended to be pressurised. A blowlamp or Tilley type lamp has previously mentioned, but how about an acetylene/carbide/miners type lamp?   A search on Google images using any of these as the search term finds all shapes and sizes of this type of lamp with a gas container of a similar construction.

 

NigelS

Nigel,

This is also a valid option and might fit the strange design of the bottom.

what i could not find so far, in the images, is a valve like the one we have at the front.

 

Thank you,

Assaf

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trajan
18 hours ago, assafx said:

... we have an SRD like jug, that was intact and now have a pick axe hit on :(

 

What a great series of finds! But I can't help other than say yes, seen that tobacco tin one before!

 

Quite understandable and forgiveable about the SRD-type jar... These things happen... The excavator who found Richard III in his grave in Leicester managed to put a mattock hole in his skull...:whistle:

 

Hope you get better soon...

 

Julian

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assafx

speaking of an SRD like jar... there he is. we have no clue yet to what was he used for.

the strike is on the opposite side.

DSC_8899.jpg.024800b3c98c94d7447f0ec778243dbb.jpg

 

Btw i can never blame the workers, no one can see underground.

about a year and a half ago i took the time to excavate a grave (i was board and all the workers were busy), on my first strike i heard glass shattering, it ended with 11 roman glass vessels (2nd century CE) and 4 bronze decorations for a coffin shaped as lion head. i have a photograph of it, while i was still digging. i owe you one :)

 

I suppose to be back in shape in 6-8 weeks, Thank you !

 

Assaf

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assafx
On 29/01/2020 at 12:19, NigelS said:

No. 8 - the cooking device. 

 

The fact that the base of this item is swaged rather than just simply soldered, to me, indicates that it is intended to be pressurised. A blowlamp or Tilley type lamp has previously mentioned, but how about an acetylene/carbide/miners type lamp?   A search on Google images using any of these as the search term finds all shapes and sizes of this type of lamp with a gas container of a similar construction.

 

NigelS

Nigel,

 

I wrote to a lamp collector, who in turn, started a discussion with his friends and colleagues.

It seems that you were right, They assume that this is the water tank of a carbide lamp.

Their guess is that it was: Powell & Hanmer (Birmangham) Carbide lamp and holder

here is a drawing attached, the part we are discussing is in yellow.

1539753915_GasLamp-highlighted.jpg.bb888d219bc2184534665a845eb473ae.jpg

Assaf

Edited by assafx

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assafx

Good Morning,

 

This tin is 17cm high and 8.5cm wide.

Is it a biscuit tin or is it too small for that?

DSC_6273.jpg.1e7d3ffa303fc3dbf8f3cdb9cc6d8146.jpg

 

Thank You,

Assaf

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