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Remembered Today:

returned ww1 medals


RegHannay

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Having recently finished transcribing and researching my Grandfathers diaries, I had a distant recollection of being told by family that he had refused his medals and returned them.

Is there any way that this can be confirmed Please.....Lieut/Capt Reginald Hannay Fothergill RAMC. 36TH FA,.. 7th Battalion East Surrey Regiment...134th FA.

Dave D

 

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Difficult thing for him to refuse them and send them back. He has no MIC so I suspect as an officer he simply did not apply for them. If he had wanted to make a statement by applying for them then returning them there would probably be a MIC saying so.

TEW 

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Some of the medal index cards were so badly damaged by rodents that they couldn't be scanned. I wonder if his was one of the affected ones? 

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8 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

Some of the medal index cards were so badly damaged by rodents that they couldn't be scanned. I wonder if his was one of the affected ones? 

Thank you both for your replies, either way, if the family info is true the doctor did not want his medals (for his own reasons)

Cheers

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you could cross reference to the medal rolls themselves

 

do you know that he actually was entitled to medals?

you could see if his papers are held by the national archives

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I have the same problem with my grandfather who was a surgeon, temp captain/major r.a.m.c.....nothing military whatsoever, so I can assume he had no interest in medals and simply didn’t apply for them.

He is gazetted as being awarded the M.C., yet doesn’t appear on the m.c. register so I assume he didn’t receive that also.

 

Dave.

 

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4 minutes ago, Coldstreamer said:

you could cross reference to the medal rolls themselves

 

do you know that he actually was entitled to medals?

you could see if his papers are held by the national archives

apparently entitled to P,S,W, also MID 1915.  Wounded 28th-29th Aug 1916 Mesnil. Relinquished commission Jan 1917

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17 minutes ago, Dave66 said:

I have the same problem with my grandfather who was a surgeon, temp captain/major r.a.m.c.....nothing military whatsoever, so I can assume he had no interest in medals and simply didn’t apply for them.

He is gazetted as being awarded the M.C., yet doesn’t appear on the m.c. register so I assume he didn’t receive that also.

 

Dave.

 

I think the majority of these medical guys deserved a medal every day while in action.

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44 minutes ago, Dave66 said:

I have the same problem with my grandfather who was a surgeon, temp captain/major r.a.m.c.....nothing military whatsoever, so I can assume he had no interest in medals and simply didn’t apply for them.

He is gazetted as being awarded the M.C., yet doesn’t appear on the m.c. register so I assume he didn’t receive that also.

 

Dave.

 

 

MC was usually presented so he couldnt have simpy not applied for it

 

 Which MC register do you refer to ? Never heard of that before

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28 minutes ago, Coldstreamer said:

 

MC was usually presented so he couldnt have simpy not applied for it

 

 Which MC register do you refer to ? Never heard of that before

By register I meant the m.c.index cards from the national archives....wrong terminology on my part.

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Hi,

 

I understand MOD have been issuing unclaimed WW1 campaign medals to NOK.

 

Have a read of this thread -

 


Steve 

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11 minutes ago, tullybrone said:

Hi,

 

I understand MOD have been issuing unclaimed WW1 campaign medals to NOK.

 

Have a read of this thread -

 


Steve 

 

14 minutes ago, tullybrone said:

Hi,

 

I understand MOD have been issuing unclaimed WW1 campaign medals to NOK.

 

Have a read of this thread -

 


Steve 

That is good news, trouble being my Grandfather was not blood but Step Grandfather having married my paternal Grandmother in 1945. So I would not be entitled to his medals.

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14 hours ago, tullybrone said:

...I understand MOD have been issuing unclaimed WW1 campaign medals to NOK...

 

Not unclaimed ones, but only those that were originally issued and returned for whatever reason then subsequently never reissued. If the OP's grandfather never applied for his medals (or did but no longer has a surviving MIC) as per TEW's post then it will likely be impossible to prove this necessity and consequently the MOD will not reissue them.

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Registers of awards were kept.

 

As per the revised statutes for the DSO, issued in the London Gazette of Friday, 12 July, 1918:

 

Twelfthly: It is ordained that the names of those whom We may be pleased to admit to Membership of this Order shall be published in the London Gazette, and a registry thereof kept in the Office of Our Secretary of State for War.

 

Similarly, for the MC, the revised statutes appeared in the Second Supplement to the London Gazette of Friday, 25 August 1916, including:

 

Sixthly: It is ordained that the names of those upon whom We may be pleased to confer this Decoration shall be published in the London Gazette, and that a Register thereof shall be kept in the Office of Our Principal Secretary of State for War.

 

A register of the DSO (awards between 1914 and 1923) and the MC (awards between 1914 and 1982) exists at The National Archives under WO 389 and a register of the DCM also exists, as WO 391; both registers may be downloaded on-line.

 

In respect of the DSO and MC, the registers comprise hand-written entries together with extracts from the London Gazette, frequently annotated with the date and location of the action.

 

Graeme

 

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1 hour ago, Andrew Upton said:

 

Not unclaimed ones, but only those that were originally issued and returned for whatever reason then subsequently never reissued. If the OP's grandfather never applied for his medals (or did but no longer has a surviving MIC) as per TEW's post then it will likely be impossible to prove this necessity and consequently the MOD will not reissue them.


Hi,

 

I know it’s a long thread but there are comments there from a member James Harvey that MOD are issuing unclaimed medals for OR’s & Officers. He said he has had family medals issued and also says unclaimed “Mons Bar” will be issued. 
 

Steve

Edited by tullybrone
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13 minutes ago, tullybrone said:

I know it’s a long thread but there are comments there from a member James Harvey that MOD are issuing unclaimed medals for OR’s & Officers. He said he has had family medals issued and also says unclaimed  “Mons Bar” will be issued.

 

 

I am very familiar with that thread. Though he stated as much it was never demonstrated/proved the MOD would issue ANY unclaimed WW1 medals. The only WW1 medals shown to have been reissued by the MOD in the last few years have definitely been the originally issued and later returned variety. QED.

 

Edited by Andrew Upton
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Hi,

 

I’ll drop him a PM to see if he can provide an update on the thread. He was last on the forum 2 weeks ago is a more regular contributor to another forum. 
 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/profile/8462-james_harvey/

 

Steve

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Hi After an extensive battle with the MoD, I was only able to get my family medals reissued that had been returned.

I have also helped get other medals returned but only those issued and then returned.

The MoD did send me a letter confirming my Great Grandfather was entitled to the Mons Bar but as he never claimed it then they could not issue it, I was advised to purchase a copy Bar

 

 

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Just now, james_harvey said:

Hi After an extensive battle with the MoD, I was only able to get my family medals reissued that had been returned.

I have also helped get other medals returned but only those issued and then returned.

The MoD did send me a letter confirming my Great Grandfather was entitled to the Mons Bar but as he never claimed it then they could not issue it, I was advised to purchase a copy Bar

 

 

I had a similar experience with trying to obtain a friend's uncle's Mercantile Marine entitlement. He couldn't claim them as he was killed whilst on the trawler Cheshire. I even proved that their assertion that the Royal Mint had destroyed the medal dies was not true.

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13 minutes ago, james_harvey said:

Hi After an extensive battle with the MoD, I was only able to get my family medals reissued that had been returned.

I have also helped get other medals returned but only those issued and then returned.

The MoD did send me a letter confirming my Great Grandfather was entitled to the Mons Bar but as he never claimed it then they could not issue it, I was advised to purchase a copy Bar

 

 


Hi,

 

Thanks for clarifying the issue so speedily.

 

Steve

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Hi Steve 

 

no problem, now have another battle regarding ww2 medals, but that’s for another forum

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1 hour ago, james_harvey said:

Hi After an extensive battle with the MoD, I was only able to get my family medals reissued that had been returned.

I have also helped get other medals returned but only those issued and then returned.

The MoD did send me a letter confirming my Great Grandfather was entitled to the Mons Bar but as he never claimed it then they could not issue it, I was advised to purchase a copy Bar

 

1 hour ago, tullybrone said:

Thanks for clarifying the issue so speedily.

 

Thanks James for confirming that. It seems mad where the MOD have drawn the line so that they will "reissue" one but not "issue" the other, but that's how it is.

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Reginald Hannay Fothergill was gazetted on the 3rd of Feb 1915, as being temporary lieutenant from 21st Jan 1915...I am sure the Op would have that information but the surprising thing is my grandfather is also on the same list 11 names up, and neither one claimed their medals...small world.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29058/supplement/1173

 

Dave.

Edited by Dave66
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27 minutes ago, Dave66 said:

Reginald Hannay Fothergill was gazetted on the 3rd of Feb 1915, as being temporary lieutenant from 21st Jan 1915...I am sure the Op would have that information but the surprising thing is my grandfather is also on the same list 11 names up, and neither one claimed their medals...small world.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29058/supplement/1173

 

Dave.

Indeed a small world.... and strange neither claimed their medals... was it common not to claim I wonder, or a form of protest.

 

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12 minutes ago, RegHannay said:

Indeed a small world.... and strange neither claimed their medals... was it common not to claim I wonder, or a form of protest.

 

Just noticed on the gazette listing for the 3rd February 1915, James Churchill Dunn M.D. 1871-1955. Author of "The war the infantry knew" first published 1938. 

Same University as Reggie..... and strangely enough my surname. makes the world smaller!!

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