msdt Posted 25 January , 2020 Share Posted 25 January , 2020 Got this relatively recently. It's the first regimentally marked 1913 bayonet I've seen, and quite likely stamped during WW1. This from the "Long, Long Trail": The Duke of Edinburgh’s (Wiltshire Regiment) 2/4th Battalion Formed at Trowbridge in October 1914 as a second line unit. Became part of 2/South Western (135th) Brigade in 2/Wessex Division. 12 December 1914 :moved in India, landing in Bombay in January 1915. The Division was broken up on arrival in India, where the Bn remained throughout the war. Attached on arrival to to Poona Brigade in 6th (Poona) Divisional Area. In March 1917 moved to Allahabad Brigade in 8th (Lucknow) Division. WTS is the correct designation at that time (think the odd 'full stops' may just be as per the ones slightly above the letters, signifying use as a hammer). In January 1915 I doubt that they took SMLE's as they were in such short supply, so probably Long Lees and perhaps later re-armed with the P14 rifles as they were only doing garrison duties. Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 25 January , 2020 Share Posted 25 January , 2020 Great find Tony, Looks to be a perfectly genuine stamping and your summary makes sense to me..don’t have one and I have seen very few ww1 unit marked examples online (link below to another) I know of one contemporary source where they were issued to one of the buffs regiments for home service prior to issue of the ariska. http://www.wdmilitaria.co.uk/viewphoto.php?x=3 Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 25 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2020 (edited) Hi Dave, Can't get your link to display a picture. However I searched WD Militaria for 1913 Bayonet and found one to the 2/6th Seaforth Highlanders - is that the one? Cheers, Tony P.S. Link now opening so question answered! Edited 25 January , 2020 by msdt Update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 25 January , 2020 Share Posted 25 January , 2020 That’s the one, I remember another but can’t for the life of me remember where it was!, Extremely rare in my opinion to attribute service to one of these, never front line, but none the less interesting. The nearest I get to any stamping is a feint home guard marking on an over polished crossguard on one of these. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 Nice -- this is interesting because at least formally unit stamping of rifles and bayonets was supposed to have stopped prior to the P14 becoming available - clearly it did not, in India at least. Are there any markings on the scabbard? just from looking at the bits you show it looks to be of later manufacture. There is another possible interesting twist here - a large number of Pattern 14 rifles/bayonets were shipped direct to India from the US Factories, I had assumed that these went into Indian service (large numbers certainly did) but this suggests some went to British units. I wonder if any mid-late war photos of the 2/4 Wilts in India exist - that might be an interesting source of wartime Pattern 14 images - which are actually very uncommon. Great item. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
593jones Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 17 hours ago, 4thGordons said: Nice -- this is interesting because at least formally unit stamping of rifles and bayonets was supposed to have stopped prior to the P14 becoming available - clearly it did not, in India at least. Are there any markings on the scabbard? just from looking at the bits you show it looks to be of later manufacture. There is another possible interesting twist here - a large number of Pattern 14 rifles/bayonets were shipped direct to India from the US Factories, I had assumed that these went into Indian service (large numbers certainly did) but this suggests some went to British units. I wonder if any mid-late war photos of the 2/4 Wilts in India exist - that might be an interesting source of wartime Pattern 14 images - which are actually very uncommon. Great item. Chris There is a photograph of the 2/4 Wilts at the Armistice Parade in India in 1918 on the National Army Museum website, unfortunately it is not possible (for me, at any rate) to be able to distinguish what rifle and bayonet they are equipped with. The picture is in the Regiments and Corps section of the site. https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/duke-edinburghs-wiltshire-regiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 26 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2020 Thanks for the link to the picture. At a first glance they do not look like SMLE's as something seems to be going on towards the end of the barrel, a narrowing that would be seen with a P14 where the wood ends and there is a short section of barrel. Interesting! Re the scabbard, no way of knowing if it has been with the bayonet a while. It would not be the original scabbard as the leather is dated 1918. Actually it is a very nice scabbard, the leather is dark brown, the '18 stamp is with an Enfield inspection mark, and the maker is T.A.A. LTD, all quite crisp. Don't think I've seen that manufacturer before. Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 26 January , 2020 Share Posted 26 January , 2020 (edited) Tony, T.A.A. Ltd rang a bell, and that thread provides an ID. Regards, JMB Edited 27 January , 2020 by JMB1943 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 27 January , 2020 Share Posted 27 January , 2020 A very nice and interesting find Tony! I had initially mis-read the title as referring to a P.1903, so I am glad I looked in just now! Must get new glasses or adjust the view size on the computer....! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 2 February , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 February , 2020 OK, took some pics yesterday. In the parade pic (link above from 593jones) taken at the Armistice Parade in India in 1918 we are looking at the top of the rifles from a little forward. Here are shots from a similar angle of a P14 and SMLE with bayonets fixed. Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLD ROBIN HOOD Posted 2 February , 2020 Share Posted 2 February , 2020 Greetings from Sherwood Forest What a really nice bayonet . The P13 and P17 are great favourites of mine and I do have quite a few . I cannot ever remember seeing a example marked to a regiment . Congratulations on finding one . Old Robin Hood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
593jones Posted 3 February , 2020 Share Posted 3 February , 2020 15 hours ago, msdt said: OK, took some pics yesterday. In the parade pic (link above from 593jones) taken at the Armistice Parade in India in 1918 we are looking at the top of the rifles from a little forward. Here are shots from a similar angle of a P14 and SMLE with bayonets fixed. Cheers, Tony I think you're right, it does look as if there is some barrel exposed at the muzzle, squinting, I can just about make it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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