Order of units from Service Medals and Awards

[memschnauzer]

Unfortunately I think my grandfather's service records were some of the ones lost to the fire. I am trying to work out whether he served in the 1/6th or 2/6th N.Staffs Regt. first. In the WW1 Service and Awards Rolls his records appear in this order

John.	241xxx 2/6 N. Staff R.
Francis.	Cpl.
	241xxx 1/6 N. Staff R.

 

Can I assume from this that he served with the 2/6 first (he would have enlisted in 1916 as no theatre of war date listed on index card and Index card only shows N. Staffs Regt on one entry) and then at some point possibly once in France was transferred to 1/6th where he most probably served until the wars end and was disembarked?

TIA

 

 

[Mark1959]

Welcome

Full name and number may help us to provide more certainty. 

Chronological order is the standard but you would want other data to fully confirm. 

[Coldstreamer]

possibly

 

Medal card of Smith, John F Corps Regiment No Rank North Staffordshire Regiment 241519 Corporal
Date:	1914-1920

[FROGSMILE]

Where a man served at both second line and first line in the war, especially in the same regiment, it would be usual that he served with 2/6th first and then was posted in a draft of reinforcements to the 1st/6th.

[Chris_Baker]

The 1/6th Battalion absorbed what was left of the 2/6th Battalion on 16 July 1918.

 

See https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-prince-of-waless-north-staffordshire-regiment/

[MaxD]

In the case of Cpl Smith that Coldstreamer ferreted out, "near numbers" suggest 2/6th first followed by 1/6th (see both Frogsmile and Chris above).

 

Of note thougn is that the heading to the unit column has, as often occurs and which has been covered on the forum before a number of times, been crossed out which indicates that the roll may not be following the "norm" which, as I understand it, was lowest unit named is first one served with then up to any others in sequence. 

 

Max

[memschnauzer]

18 minutes ago, MaxD said:

In the case of Cpl Smith that Coldstreamer ferreted out, "near numbers" suggest 2/6th first followed by 1/6th (see both Frogsmile and Chris above).

 

Of note thougn is that the heading to the unit column has, as often occurs and which has been covered on the forum before a number of times, been crossed out which indicates that the roll may not be following the "norm" which, as I understand it, was lowest unit named is first one served with then up to any others in sequence. 

 

Max

Yes the top of the it column is crossed out

1 hour ago, Mark1959 said:

Welcome

Full name and number may help us to provide more certainty. 

Chronological order is the standard but you would want other data to fully confirm. 

John Francis Smith 241519

47 minutes ago, Coldstreamer said:

possibly

 

Medal card of Smith, John F Corps Regiment No Rank North Staffordshire Regiment 241519 Corporal
Date:	1914-1920

Yes correct

[memschnauzer]

37 minutes ago, Chris_Baker said:

The 1/6th Battalion absorbed what was left of the 2/6th Battalion on 16 July 1918.

 

See https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-prince-of-waless-north-staffordshire-regiment/

That is interesting thank you 

[memschnauzer]

Thank you all for the feedback, much appreciated, Helps me focus my research as I was floundering a bit in my understanding of it all. 

[clk]

Hi memschnauzer,

 

His 241519 service number is associated with the number block allocated to the line units (i.e. 1/6th, 2/6th, and 3/6th Battalions) of the North Stafford Regiment when the men of the Territorial Force were renumbered in 1917 - see here. Prior to that time they (mostly) had 4 digit regimental numbers, from which the men were generally renumbered sequentially to their new number (allowing for 'fall outs'). What that means is that whilst John doesn't appear to have surviving service papers, you can probably make a reasonable inference from 'near number' men that do. For example...

 

4575/241494 Farnsworth - mobilised and posted to 2/6 North Staffs 20.1.1916

????/241519

464(?)8/241537 Shipley - mobilised 22.1.1916, posted to 2/6 North Staffs 23.1.1916

 

The reason that a 4 digit number isn't shown in the medal roll record for your grandfather is that it was irrelevant to his medal awards - i.e. he didn't qualify for them by serving overseas in a theatre of war under that number, so he only served there post 1916 under his 6 digit renumber. The service records for Farnsworth and Shipley both show...Embarked Folkestone, and Disembarked Boulogne 25.2.1917. That date ties back to the date that the battalion landed (war diary at the National Archive here, Ancestry here). Whilst I can't be 100% sure, I would think that it was most likely that John proceeded overseas at that time with his unit.

 

Without his service file again I can't be sure, but it does seem at least possible that he was transferred to the 1/6th when his battalion was 'absorbed' - the 2/6th were initially reported as having over 50% of their unit strength (killed/wounded/missing (inc later confirmed as PoWs) during the initial days of the massive German spring offensive of 1918 when 59 Division took a hammering

 

Image sourced from the National Archives

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

 

Edited 24 January , 2020 by clk