depaor01 Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 Found in a bundle of photos in our library - but no info as to who donated it unfortunately. I see he's ANZAC with an Australia shoulder title and also long service chevrons plus good conduct stripe and no medal ribbons so possibly immediately postwar (?) Anyone know what the shoulder flash is? Interestingly on the back it's named as being from Jack Hynes who is presumably the soldier pictured. I've checked the Australian WWI records and there is indeed one John Hynes from County Clare, but I don't think either the signatures or the description match. Thanks in advance, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 24 January , 2020 Admin Share Posted 24 January , 2020 http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-badges/patches/inf-ww1.htm heres the battalion patches guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 24 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2020 3 minutes ago, Michelle Young said: http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-badges/patches/inf-ww1.htm heres the battalion patches guide Thanks Michelle... I sense an in-depth orthochromatic discussion coming along! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 24 January , 2020 Admin Share Posted 24 January , 2020 Of which I know nothing, so cannot contribute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rksimpson Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 Hi Given the patch is for the Light Horse, I would say this chap - https://www.aif.adfa.edu.au/showPerson?pid=148867 Stripe is for Lance Corporal, which is recorded in his service records. regards Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 24 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2020 Thanks all! Great info. Much obliged Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 I would agree that RKSimpson's man is probably the correct one If so 1. Born Capella , Queensland Nov 1888 -Aus birth 2. Died Queensland 1939 Apr 16 - findagrave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 24 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2020 2 minutes ago, corisande said: I would agree that RKSimpson's man is probably the correct one If so 1. Born Capella , Queensland Nov 1888 -Aus birth 2. Died Queensland 1939 Apr 16 - findagrave That is amazing! What a sad end. Thanks Corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 2 hours ago, rksimpson said: Hi Given the patch is for the Light Horse, I would say this chap - https://www.aif.adfa.edu.au/showPerson?pid=148867 Stripe is for Lance Corporal, which is recorded in his service records. regards Robert Hi I not sure with the colour patch. He enlisted and embarked with the 5th Light Horse, but when the photo was taken he had served overseas for 4 years, as per the service chevrons. From his service papers, he was serving with 1st Divisional Ammunition Column as of 11 July 1916, so shouldn't the colour patch should be Artillery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 9 minutes ago, ForeignGong said: Hi I not sure with the colour patch. He enlisted and embarked with the 5th Light Horse, but when the photo was taken he had served overseas for 4 years, as per the service chevrons. From his service papers, he was serving with 1st Divisional Ammunition Column as of 11 July 1916, so shouldn't the colour patch should be Artillery. As his rank is listed as Bombardier (one stripe at that time) it seems clear that he was indeed in the Royal Australian Artillery and probably posted there from the reinforcements depot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 John's service record https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=7363036 Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 In fact,re looking at the photo,looks more like Jack Hynes?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 24 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2020 11 minutes ago, Dragoon said: In fact,re looking at the photo,looks more like Jack Hynes?? It is, but Jack is an informal form of John and rarely seen in official docs. John F Kennedy was regularly known as Jack. Thanks for the record I've been looking for it in vain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 24 January , 2020 Share Posted 24 January , 2020 24 minutes ago, depaor01 said: It is, but Jack is an informal form of John and rarely seen in official docs. John F Kennedy was regularly known as Jack. Thanks for the record I've been looking for it in vain! Of course, didn't think of it like that, and no worries👍 Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 24 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2020 2 hours ago, Dragoon said: Of course, didn't think of it like that, and no worries👍 Chris No problem Chris. I think it took me 30 years to cop that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 25 January , 2020 Share Posted 25 January , 2020 (edited) Mates, Men named Hynes in the ALH; HYNES Frederick 1593 Pte 02 LHR 12R Tos 2-16 att 5Co AASC 2-16 rtn 4-16 att WFF disch 19-9-16 MU TB N/R Labourer 23 Cross Hill Oakey Qld 10-8-15 RTA 17-7-16 Cross Hill Oakey Qld HYNES Herbert Percy 57557 Pte 3 GSR Tas tos 03 LHR 1-19 N/R Policeman 43 Burnie Tas 1-5-18 RTA 10-4-19 Burnie Tas HYNES John 2345 Pte 05 LHR 16R To AATD UK 7-16 to A/Bdr 10-16 tos L/Cpl 1 Sect/1 DAC 5-17 att 2 CCS 1-18 F&B N/R Labourer 27 Rockhampton 5-10-15 RTA 1-4-19 Claremont Qld HYNES John Edward 1777 Pte 05 LHR 12R to 2 LHTR 3-16 to Dvr 49Bty/13 FAB 3-16 WIA 23-9-17 head accident kicked by horse while grooming while Bde at rest at St Monielieu revert Gnr 11-17 att Sig school 7-18 to Dvr 11-18 F&B RTA 1915 leave later WWII N/R Grocer 21 Cairns Qld 31-12-14 RTA 13-4-19 Koorboora Qld HYNES John Francis 2343 Pte 11 LHR 18R to BSqn/4 LHTR 7-17 tos Dvr 36Co (996Co) AASC AMDT 8-17 to 38Co 5-19 Ex 27R/05 LHR (3307) DNE N/R Clerk 26 Bowen Hills Qld 25-10-16 RTA 10-7-19 Bowen Hills Qld HYNES Leo 2439 Pte 12 LHR 20R Tos 1-18 N/R Labourer 28 Ferry Town Narrandera NSW 19-3-17 RTA 20-7-19 Ferry Town Narrandera NSW HYNES Martin Francis 1885 Pte 05 LHR 13R Tos 2-16 to Dvr 51Bty/13 FAB 3-16 to 119Bty 10-16 to 51Bty/13 FAB 3-18 F&B N/R Labourer 21 Ravensdale Qld 15-5-15 RTA 19-2-19 Clermont Qld HYNES Patrick Joseph 2550 Pte 12 LHR 22R tos 4 LH Bde HQ 6-18 to Dvr 9-18 N/R Labourer 32 Cootamundra NSW 10-4-17 RTA 20-7-19 Cootamundra NSW HYNES Thomas 508 Pte 12 LHR C Sqn att DSqn/6 LHR 8-15 to L/Cpl 10-15 WIA 9-11-15 L/shoulder shrapnel with 4 killed and 7 wounded either at Ryries Post or amoung the 100 men sent to Wilson's Lookout evac to hosp 11-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to T/Cpl (from royal) 4-16 to Cpl 4-16 to hosp (hernia) 5-16 rtn 5-16 to L/Sgt 4-17 to Sgt C Sqn? (from woolbank WIA) 6-17 to 4 LHTR 7-17 to hosp (TB) 9-17 RTA MU TB disch 19-6-18 (4Sqn/6 LH NELH CMF 1 year) 6 LH Stationhand 31 Marrickville NSW 7-1-15 RTA 12-11-17 Marrickville NSW HYNES Thomas Bartholomew 18110 Pte 1 LHFA 30R tos Govt Hosp Suez 1-18 to 3 LHFA 6-18 (33 IR Irish Rifles CMF 3 years) 33 IR Draper 24 Camden NSW 16-1-17 RTA 10-7-19 Camden NSW HYNES Thomas Sherlock 1953 Pte 11 LHR 12R to 3 LHTR 11-16 qual lewis MG 2-17 tos 4 LH MGS 2-17 WIA 29-11-17 L/Leg shot reported near Beit ur et Tahta to (med class B2) MG Trg Sqn 1-18 rtn 10-18 N/R Butcher 20 Wolfram Camp via Cairns Qld 29-4-16 RTA 24-719 Wolfram Camp via Cairns Qld HYNES William John 2631 Pte 1 Remts 4R Tos B Sqn 5-16 to 5 DBD 10-16 to AVH calais 5-17 to Dvr 3 BAC 1-18 to T/Cpl 5-19 F&B N/R Labourer 27 Leggan NSW 10-1-16 RTA 31-5-19 Goulburn NSW Take your pick, Jack while correct could be John, it was not uncommon for many men to be called Jack and have other other name then John, we have to look deeper then the Jack/John connection. No non ALH soldier would have a Shoulder patch unless his unit was ALH, While an Artillery patch does look like a ALH patch, the Dark blue is at the bottom of the 1st Div AIF Artillery patch, not the top as the one shown in the photo. Which as stated a Light Horse patch does have the darker color on top and the lighter on bottom in the 5th ALHR is Light blue is on top and red on bottom, Red being the Brigade color, the 6th ALHR was Green over Red and 7th LHR being Black over Red. But we should also show that ALH Bde sub units also had the same patches like Purple for the MG Sqns, Brown for the AHFA and Dark Red for Vet units. So again take your pick S.B Edited 25 January , 2020 by stevebecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 January , 2020 Share Posted 25 January , 2020 (edited) Looking at Steve’s list, John Hynes 2345 seems to me the best bet: Pte 5th Light Horse Regiment 16th Reinforcements(?) To Australian Artillery Training Depot(?) Arrived(?) UK July 1916 to A/Bdr October 1916 Taken on Strength as L/Cpl 1 Sect/1st Divisional Ammunition Column May 1917 Attached 2 Casualty Clearing Station January 1918 F&B National Registration Labourer 27 Rockhampton 5th October 1915 Returned to Australia 1st April 1919 Claremont, Queensland. NB. It would be nice to send a copy of the photograph to the Australian War Museum for their records and access by family members. Edited 25 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 25 January , 2020 Share Posted 25 January , 2020 13 hours ago, stevebecker said: ...No non ALH soldier would have a Shoulder patch unless his unit was ALH, While an Artillery patch does look like a ALH patch, the Dark blue is at the bottom of the 1st Div AIF Artillery patch, not the top as the one shown in the photo. Which as stated a Light Horse patch does have the darker color on top and the lighter on bottom in the 5th ALHR is Light blue is on top and red on bottom, Red being the Brigade color, the 6th ALHR was Green over Red and 7th LHR being Black over Red. But we should also show that ALH Bde sub units also had the same patches like Purple for the MG Sqns, Brown for the AHFA and Dark Red for Vet units... Steve, are you taking the effect of orthochromatic film into account when looking at how the patches in the photo versus what the known colours are? Orthochromatic film typically interprets the red/orange/yellow spectrum as unusally dark whilst the blue/purple spectrum appears unusally light, eg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 25 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2020 9 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: NB. It would be nice to send a copy of the photograph to the Australian War Museum for their records and access by family members. I had intended doing that when the thread yielded more info. I will certainly upload the pic. Thanks again for all your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootrock Posted 25 January , 2020 Share Posted 25 January , 2020 The photo was taken by a photographer in Weymouth. In his records on 1 April 1919 it mentions Weymouth Station and Avonmouth port where he embarked for home on the HMS Shropshire. So maybe he was based near Weymouth prior to leaving for home, where he had the photo taken, and a copy was given to Mrs and Mr Gilligan(?) who he had met locally. Just a thought. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 25 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2020 38 minutes ago, tootrock said: The photo was taken by a photographer in Weymouth. In his records on 1 April 1919 it mentions Weymouth Station and Avonmouth port where he embarked for home on the HMS Shropshire. So maybe he was based near Weymouth prior to leaving for home, where he had the photo taken, and a copy was given to Mrs and Mr Gilligan(?) who he had met locally. Just a thought. Martin That certainly adds another pointer. Thanks Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 25 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2020 To add to this, I've compared the signatures on the card with those on the attestation form. It's a bit hard to do exactly because of the Jack/John difference, but the surname is broadly similar but with slight differences. In fact all through the attestation docs his signature changes. Given what these men suffered during service, did signatures change over the years? I can post images on Monday. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 January , 2020 Share Posted 25 January , 2020 (edited) I think that signatures change to a degree according to a range of circumstances; if the writer is hot, or cold, their posture (space available), the writing implement (well worn or not), the quality of the ink, the mood (in a rush) and how many signatures are expected at one sitting. Ergo, I don’t think that overmuch should be read into small differences providing that they are not noticeably stark. Edited 25 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 25 January , 2020 Share Posted 25 January , 2020 1 hour ago, tootrock said: The photo was taken by a photographer in Weymouth. In his records on 1 April 1919 it mentions Weymouth Station and Avonmouth port where he embarked for home on the HMS Shropshire. So maybe he was based near Weymouth prior to leaving for home, where he had the photo taken, and a copy was given to Mrs and Mr Gilligan(?) who he had met locally. Just a thought. Martin That certainly seems compelling on the surface of things, Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 25 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 25 January , 2020 Just now, FROGSMILE said: providing that they are not noticeably stark. Not in this case. Straight down y, and s the same in all. H curly in one, less so in others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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