Did the 8th Bttn Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment) exist?

[maudson]

I wonder if anyone can help me with a man who emigrated to Canada in 1913 and then came back with the Canadians in 1916. He had Regimental Number 228244 and eventually joined the 8th Battalion Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment) in the field on 31st October 1916. He was in the Canadian No.1 Field Ambulance with an eye infection for a few days in December 1916. He was killed moving up to the front near Loos on 21st July 1917. I have found his military records and other stories of his life and I think have sorted out the outline of his life and the various units that he moved through until he was posted to the 8th. What I have struggled with is trying to identify where his battalion was in the November 1916 to July 1917.. I cannot follow the 8th and it seems to get confused with the Winnipeg Rifles. Can anybody help? 

David

 

[Coldstreamer]

be worth changing post title to where was the 8th btn Manitoba Rgt in 16/17.  A post title with a name in soldiers suggests you want info on him but you seem to have this covered

[FROGSMILE]

10 hours ago, maudson said:

I wonder if anyone can help me with a man who emigrated to Canada in 1913 and then came back with the Canadians in 1916. He had Regimental Number 228244 and eventually joined the 8th Battalion Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment) in the field on 31st October 1916. He was in the Canadian No.1 Field Ambulance with an eye infection for a few days in December 1916. He was killed moving up to the front near Loos on 21st July 1917. I have found his military records and other stories of his life and I think have sorted out the outline of his life and the various units that he moved through until he was posted to the 8th. What I have struggled with is trying to identify where his battalion was in the November 1916 to July 1917.. I cannot follow the 8th and it seems to get confused with the Winnipeg Rifles. Can anybody help? 

David

 

I believe that you might’ve mixed your regiments up.  That’s not unusual as it can be difficult to make sense of the CEF system at that time. Are you 100% positive that he was in the 8th Infantry of the CEF?

 

It was the 22nd Battalion Canadian Infantry that was the Manitoba Regiment.  The 8th Battalion Canadian Infantry was the Winnipeg Rifles, but also recruited significant numbers of men from Manitoba, as well as Brandon, Winnipeg, Kenora, and Port Arthur.

 

The following links to the 8th Battalion CEF infantry might be of assistance to you:

 

1.  http://www.canadiangreatwarproject.com/warDiaryLac/wdLacP08.asp
 

2. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/8th_Battalion_(90th_Winnipeg_Rifles),_CEF

3.  
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/Documents/infantry battalions.pdf

4.  https://www.gov.mb.ca/sd/lands_branch/geo_names/document/manitoba_ww1_names.pdf

Edited 23 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[maudson]

Hi Frogsmile and Coldstreamer

Thanks for your posts. With regard,to his unit, the Canadian Virtual War Memorial website (CVWM) on www.veterans.gc.ca has the unit as the Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment) and the Division as 8th Battalion. Similarly his obituary on the wwww.cardstonhistoricalsociety .org site has those details.(Cardston is a town near his home). There are other soldiers on other sites with the same Regimental name (e.g. Walter Isaac Stracey on the Coggeshall (Essex) Museum website). On the other hand in the official military records it only states 8th Battalion (and this is also on his gravestone at Loos). He was enlisted with 13th Canadian Mounted Rifles (although sometimes is OCR) and in England was with Fort Gary Horse Reserve Regiment at Shorncliffe. He was then transferred to the 11th Battalion to go to France where he joined the 8th in the field.

 

I have a copy of him in uniform, The maple leaves on his collar can be seen but his cap badge is difficult to make out.. Unlikely that this was 8th looking at his career. Coldstreamer - You are right but as topic now started might confuse matters so will leave for present.

David

[FROGSMILE]

David there was only one 8th Infantry CEF and if that is in the “official military records” and “on his gravestone”, then the unit he was actually with at the time that he died was the 8th Infantry Battalion (Winnipeg Rifles) CEF.  Most Canadians were with a range of different units, starting in Canada, then in another - a Reserve unit in England - before being sent in drafts to to a field unit in France and Flanders, probably via a Canadian base depot there.  It was only there, with drafts of other reinforcements, that he finally joins the unit with which he fights.

I recommend that you now look at the 8th Infantry war diary and research the unit in general.

 

NB.  Your comment above referring to 8th Battalion as a “Division” does not make sense and so doesn’t seem to augur well for the veracity of the “Virtual War Memorial”.

Edited 23 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[maudson]

Many thanks Frogsmile for your help.. That is what I will start to do now..

David

[FROGSMILE]

23 minutes ago, maudson said:

Many thanks Frogsmile for your help.. That is what I will start to do now..

David

Here is a link to another man’s experience with the 8th Battalion CEF: http://www.hcpconsulting.ca/granddad/hist002.htm

 

Also a photo of a bombing section within the 8th.  It is stated that the reverse of the Carte Postale photo has the date and place inscribed in period pen and ink. The individuals names are repeated on the reverse, although Dresk appears to be Dresch which may be accurate as that name appears in the CEF online database from National Archives while Dresk does not appear. Drennan and "2 others" are noted as "killed" while Robinson, Brown and LeClaire are noted as "wounded" along with another name that apparently cannot be deciphered.

 

Edited 23 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[maudson]

Thanks again Frogsmile. I still think there is a mystery. Quite a number of official websites have the 8th Battalion Canadian Infantry (Manitoba Regiment) for soldiers  who have been killed. in WW1. I guess it does not matter as I will just follow the 8th. 

David