A/2/Cpl Arnold Ormerod RE

[xjojox]

Any RE experts out there please?  I'm researching Arnold Ormerod Regt Number 4175 - a career soldier on the 1901 census for 60 Field Company RE Longmoor Bks and a silver war badge recipient the list gives his dates of service as 10-01-1900 to 1-10-1919 (no longer fit for war). I would love to find out anything about his wartime service but am afraid Ive met my brick wall - Thank you

[James123]

Arnold Ormerod, he was issued a Long Service Good Conduct medal in 1921.

 

Acting Corporal 1914 

 

Acting 2nd Corporal 1919:

 

Discharged Paragraph 392 King's Regulations (xvi) No longer physically fit for war service. Army Order 29 of January 1919 whilst with G Depot Company Royal Engineers

 

Qualifying 13-12-14 France

 

Issued Silver War Badge Numbered B311936 for sickness

 

 

Edited 22 January , 2020 by James123

[xjojox]

Thanks James - that's brilliant, very much appreciated. Would you have any pointers for the units he may have served with for his wartime years?

[James123]

7 minutes ago, xjojox said:

Thanks James - that's brilliant, very much appreciated. Would you have any pointers for the units he may have served with for his wartime years?

I am sure some of the more knowledgeable guys on the forum will pick up the post and will be able to help more👍

[xjojox]

Thanks - hope so

[charlie962]

Not an expert so just some thoughts:

 

There's a tree on Ancestry that may be yours ? It clarifies that Arnold Ormerod was born Arnold Henry Ormerod, Oxford, in 1881. It shows the 1901 Census as you mention above but no 1911 Census. I cannot find one either so it would support the idea that he was still serving but with a unit overseas for whom the Census return has been lost. It is a pity because the unit he was with then could perhaps be the unit he was with in 1914.

 

The entry date to France of 13/12/14 may match a Unit going there but then again he may have been a reinforcement. I don't know how to easily pin down the embarkation dates of the various RE Field Companies.

 

His LSGC award noted by James (I haven't seen the record) would seem reasonable as with continuous service he would have done the neccesary 18 years.( with a clean record). I note that even the 1939 Register has him as 2nd Cpl RE.

 

With the additional background info I still couldn't find anything more on his military service! I was puzzled that his entry on the British War/Victory medal roll says RE (T) which would normally imply a Territorial man rather than a Regular ?? Might it suggest he was a Regular but serving with a Territorial unit ? Or is it a clerical error ?

 

Charlie

[Coldstreamer]

its possible his papers are still with MOD if he served after ww1, Ive looked at the some lists but cant see him

[xjojox]

Thank you Charlie and Coldstreamer for your help and ideas - I hadn't thought about contacting the MOD but am going to give it a go yes the family tree on Ancestry is mine - will keep digging and thanks again.

 

Jo

[charlie962]

Following up on that entry date of 13/12/14............

 

Men with a similar date (and with a surviving service record) include

 

3523 William Fenn; He was with 25th Coy in HongKong until 6/11/14 and then returned to UK and shipped to France 13/12/14

3555 Ezra Breese; He was with 31 Coy in Ceylon until 17/10/14 and then returned to UK and shipped to France 13/12/14

3172 John Bell; He was with 31 Coy in Ceylon until 17/10/14 and then returned to UK and shipped to France 13/12/14

2323 Benjamin Beckett; He was with 24th Coy in Malta until 25/9/14, and then returned home before being shipped to France with 31 Coy

 

This backs up the idea that Ormerod was abroad pre-war but with which outfit ?

 

So he could perhaps have been a 31 Coy man ?

 

31 Fortress Company RE Embarked at Southampton 13/12/14 and Disembarked at Le Havre 14/12/14. War Diaries are here (but won't mention his name)

It became 31 Army Troop Company RE then 10 Army Tramway Company. (with First Army)

 

25 Army Troop Company RE War Diary is here  (also First Army)

I think they also shipped out in Dec 1914 but I don't have a date.

 

Charlie

Edited 22 January , 2020 by charlie962

[xjojox]

Thanks Charlie - you've really given me some great info to get to work with - I hadn't though to look at nearby regimental numbers!

[charlie962]

11 minutes ago, xjojox said:

nearby regimental numbers

It's a variation on that theme. He'd been in the army too long for him to be following anyone with a close number.

Have a look at the RE 1914/15 Star roll (on Ancestry here) for him then scroll back and forth from that page and pick up people with same entry date of 13/12/14.  Then look to see if they have a surviving service record then look to see if that helps establish a pattern. There weren't many that I found.

 

charlie

 

ps I note the 14/15 Star Roll page is not yet linked on your tree.

Edited 22 January , 2020 by charlie962

[xjojox]

Hi Charlie, thanks again, Ive been away from my tree for a while so am busy bringing it back to life - thanks very very much or the help and brilliant pointers

 

Jo

[charlie962]

I've had a look at Howard Williamson's ( @collectorsguide) medal collectors companion vol3 which has quite a bit of background on different RE units including the Fortress Companies, Army Troops Companies and Tramway Companies.

 

I am fairly confident that Ormerod will have been overseas and returned to UK like the others noted above, before being shipped to France with 25 or 31 Fortress Company RE.

 

The problem with these comparisons to similar service records is that they are generally only valid for a limited period.

 

We cannot say if Ormerod was 31 or 25 Coy before returning to UK. Look at Beckett who was in Malta with 24 Coy but posted to 31 Coy on 1/10/14 when he arrived back in UK. Are there any photos or stories of Ormerod having been in Hong Kong or Ceylon ?

 

We cannot say if he remained long with 25 or 31 Coy once in France. A look at the other service records shows wildly different subsequent paths; there was a great need for experienced men to be spread about the newly formed units and also to return to Uk to staff training establishments.

 

But it you do have a bit of a start now.

 

Charlie

 

PS given that he was discharged sick he may have subsequently claimed a Pension. There's nothing on the Pension Cards/Ledger yet but over the next year there should be a lot more records being released. See other threads on this forum eg Western Front association Pension Records.

 

Edited 23 January , 2020 by charlie962

[xjojox]

Thanks Charlie - You've given me loads - and I've also learnt lots - I hadn't heard anything about Hong Kong or Ceylon but will ask our one remaining relative who knew Uncle Arnold.