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Jervis

Belgian solider buried in Cobh, Ireland?

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corisande
2 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

1) He died before those maritime funerals, but the USN decided not to bury him at sea for some reason, perhaps  because he was a soldier or

 

That would be my feeling - as a soldier he would have had an ID, whereas the civilians would not (and probably never could have been identified). So the Capt of the destroyer would have been to land the only body with an ID

 

The destroyer appears to have abandoned further rescue attempts immediately after the U boat fired a torpedo at the US ship. So it is improbable that the US ship would have found any more bodies, other than those recovered before abandoning the sweep of the sinking.

 

Clearly nobody will ever know now.

Edited by corisande

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JWK

Some more info:

 

From "L'écho Belge: journal quotidien du matin paraissant à Amsterdam" ("Belgian echo: daily morning newspaper appearing in Amsterdam") of 12 october 1918

mate.jpg.777e1ba17d0e0ead364adbf50e9c12de.jpg

"The body of the third mate was brought ashore [in Queenstown]"

 

From "La métropole d'Anvers: paraissant provisoirement à Londres"  ("The metropolis of Antwerp: appearing provisionally in London") of 12 october 1918

veken.jpg.21a0f0c5d8d1bd83509cd2412b5bd389.jpg

"It didn't take more than 5 minutes for the ship to sink.

Five of our fellow countrymen: Messrs P. Van der Veken, L. Dumont, L. Moulin, P. Gosse and A. Delehaye were on board on behalf of L'Union Minière". Of those only Mr L. Dumont managed to save himself"

( "L'Union Minière" was a Belgian mining company in Belgian Congo. Now called/part of Umicore)

 

 

 

Edited by JWK

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healdav
On 21/01/2020 at 10:06, corisande said:

 

 

Having thought about the problem, I suddenly thought I had the solution - a death cert ....but I cannot find one

 

Clearly he has been identified down to exact date of birth and death, but that could well have been later. The cemetery records may give details as to whether the name came later. Even "unknowns" had death certs during the War of Independence, so I assume this was the case in 1918

 

1. There is no death cert for a Veken or Van der Veken

2. There is no death cert for 1918 with  Christian name Pierre

3. There is no "unknown" under Cork that looks as if it might be him

4. I cannot see an "unknown" anywhere in Ireland for 1918 that looks as if it could be him

 

Anyone with any other ideas on getting a death cert can try https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ as it is all free online :)

The 'official' list of Belgian casualties has a Pierre Edward Germaine Van der Veken of the 2nd Zware Artillerie, army number 6678/933 born Antwerp. He died on the SS Heranoz Marie.

The list says he was Killed in Action, but no date is given.

I did try to find his grave some years ago, but failed. - and there were two of us searching the cemetery - so perhaps the gravestone dates from this century as I did ask the Cork Section of the WFA to see what they could find out. The gravestone is not a standard Belgian gravestone of the WW1 period.

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Margaretnolan
On 22/01/2020 at 11:31, corisande said:

 

I think that he probably was registered in Ireland, but under a name that I cannot find.

 

The Irish GRO interpretations of names that are not Irish is often "imaginative"

 

There is a lot of scope of variations with "van der Veken" and I have never found a way to use wildcards on the excellent Irish GRO site

 

I have tried all the permutations that I can think of, but the answer is probably that it was registered under a variant that I have not tried!

 

Some death certs appear to be missing from Irish Geneology Website and from GRO Ireland. They are in a box somewhere! 

Missing certs for at least two soldiers who died at home 1915 and 1919.

 

Margaret 

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museumtom

Some are badly indexed also. It is only when you get to the actual image you can see the name was transcribed.

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KGB

He was Flemish, mothers maiden name TE ROEKEN (not the). As for the ship "Maru" is spirit in Japanese. Ireland in 1918-24 had other issues than identifying Belgian dead. 

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Aurel Sercu

Just a detail. I think his morther's name is De Roeck.

And his wife's : on the man's military document I read it as Dyer Bella (resid. Mortsel). Dyer does not look like a Flemish name to me ... English ? Bella does look more familiar, but not in the first place as a woman's name. Unless short for Isabella...

Aurel

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doyle3

FindmyPast has his death in the Register of Deaths at Sea. Also has the list of passengers on the ship/list of passengers leaving Birkenhead

 

 

 

 

veken.png

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BarbaraG

 

Probably no connection but Passenger List on Ancestry...No 469

40610_B000886-00443.jpg

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BarbaraG

Some details clearer here

Screen Shot 2020-06-30 at 21.55.28.png

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Keith_history_buff

So, he was heading to Cape Town.

I wonder if the two Japanese naval officers survived?

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JWK
Posted (edited)

He, and 4 other Belgians, were "travelling on behalf of L' Union Miniere" to Belgian Congo (Ratanga Mines) via Cape Town  (see post #27)

What I don`t understand is that the Belgian newspapers-in-exile of the time write about Mr van der Veke, employee of L' Union Miniere, the ship's manifest (which lists him as just "Veke") notes him as " clerk" (The director of the Ratanga Mines, Dumont, is also described as " clerk" ), yet his grave-stone and the Belgian official register denotes him as "soldier"?

Edited by JWK

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BarbaraG
On 22/01/2020 at 21:22, JWK said:

Some more info:

 

From "L'écho Belge: journal quotidien du matin paraissant à Amsterdam" ("Belgian echo: daily morning newspaper appearing in Amsterdam") of 12 october 1918

mate.jpg.777e1ba17d0e0ead364adbf50e9c12de.jpg

"The body of the third mate was brought ashore [in Queenstown]"

 

From "La métropole d'Anvers: paraissant provisoirement à Londres"  ("The metropolis of Antwerp: appearing provisionally in London") of 12 october 1918

veken.jpg.21a0f0c5d8d1bd83509cd2412b5bd389.jpg

"It didn't take more than 5 minutes for the ship to sink.

Five of our fellow countrymen: Messrs P. Van der Veken, L. Dumont, L. Moulin, P. Gosse and A. Delehaye were on board on behalf of L'Union Minière". Of those only Mr L. Dumont managed to save himself"

( "L'Union Minière" was a Belgian mining company in Belgian Congo. Now called/part of Umicore)

 

 

 

 

Ticket Numbers show four of the five travelling together (?) VEKEN 469 Dumont 467 Moulin 468 Gosse 470 

 

 

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JWK
On 30/06/2020 at 23:48, BarbaraG said:

Ticket Numbers show four of the five travelling together (?) VEKEN 469 Dumont 467 Moulin 468 Gosse 470 

 

Hmmm, intereresting!  Where did A. Delehaye disappear to?

And why is an Italian national (on line 15) disembarking in Cape Town on his way to Italy? Surely there were more direct(ish) routes at the time?

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