Where did Private Ralph Ellis fall.

[Exaltabit]

Dear all,

 I am researching Private Ralph Ellis, 1/6 Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derby) KIA 19/9/15. Their war diary is very sketchy with little detail and I don't understand the location references. Please could anyone give me some more detail about the battalion's whereabouts in the Salient on this date?

Thanks in anticipation.

Ben

[jonbem]

Hi

is the the right man?

if you look on the grave report on CWGC I presume Zillebeke area

PrivateELLIS, R

Service Number 2097

Died 19/09/1915

Aged 19

1st/6th Bn.
Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regiment)

Son of Sarah Jane Ellis. of 9, Brockwell Terrace, Chesterfield.

[Exaltabit]

Thanks Jonbem, yes that's him. I've gleaned what I can from CWGC but am trying to narrow it down if possible.

All best,

Ben

[jonbem]

How about a look at the 139 Infantry Brigade Headquarters Diary

[Bob Davies]

Hi Ben, over time I have studied this area (Ypress Salient) on maps looking for the 4th and 5th Leicesters. They were taking it in turns in the trenches with the Sherwood Foresters. However this was a bit to the north of where the 6th Sherwoods were. The easiest way to find the general area they were in is to look on google maps for Chester Farm cemetry and Spoilbank cemetry. These are not too far to the south west of Zillebeke town with Spoil Bank being very close to a canal. HQ for 6th Battalion Sherwood Foresters was at Spoil Bank. So the trenches they were in were around that area, (both north and south of the canal I think) I hope that helps. Regards, Bob.

Edited 20 January , 2020 by Bob Davies
To add a bit

[Bob Davies]

Posted by CLK Chris on a previous topic some time ago. Courtesy of Ancestry.co.uk from the 138th infantry brigade HQ diary. 11th Sept  1915 showing Spoil Bank and location of 8th and 5th Sherwoods.  Hollebeke is another small town close by just off the map to the south east and Hollebeke Chateaux. Regards, Bob.

[Don Regiano]

5 hours ago, Exaltabit said:

 

  I don't understand the location references.

 

Ben, I think you will find the numbers against the entry for 4 September in the 1/6 diary refer to the trench numbers held by 5 Sherwoods as shown in Bob's map (square I33). 6 Sherwoods relieved them at that time and were subsequently relieved by the 5th Bn on 22 September.  Well, that's how I read it and the Brigade diary (also very thin) does refer to the 6th Bn being in the right sector.  It also refers to"trenches 27 & 28" being bombarded.

 

Reg

[Bordercollie]

I agree with Reg.  The Op Order issued by 139 Bde on 21 August 1915 gives the right sector of the brigade front as comprising trenches 27, 28 and 29. These can be seen marked on the map at post #6.

 

 

 

The 139 Bde War Diary entry for 16 September 1915 then shows 6/Sherwood Foresters being rotated back into the right sector on that day and they remained there until they went into divisional reserve on 22 September 1915. So that would put the battalion in trenches 27, 28 and 29 on 19 September 1915.

 

 

War Diary extracts from Naval & Military Press "The War Diaries of the Battalions who fought the Great War on the Western Front"

Edited 21 January , 2020 by Bordercollie

[WhiteStarLine]

Ben, the large orange square represents square I.33 and the place of burial (Sheet 28.I.33.a.7.6) has the small orange dot.  Click on the image to enlarge.  The places mentioned by others are marked for you.

Courtesy tMapper

[Don Regiano]

I am currently reading Subalterns of the Foot which is about the war diaries of 3 officers in 5th Cheshires.  I've reached where some of the entries relate to time spent in June 1915 in trenches 27 and 28 which were "by the canal", trench 28 being only about 50 yards from the German trench and having a "lively time".  It might have been the same in September 1915.

[Bob Davies]

20 hours ago, Don Regiano said:

I am currently reading Subalterns of the Foot which is about the war diaries of 3 officers in 5th Cheshires.  I've reached where some of the entries relate to time spent in June 1915 in trenches 27 and 28 which were "by the canal", trench 28 being only about 50 yards from the German trench and having a "lively time".  It might have been the same in September 1915.

 The  details I have are from "Footprints of the 4th Leicestershire". " And sentimental Private Atkins cleaning his rifle in 47 the international trench ten yards from the Germans" is mentioned, end Sept 1915. There are some pictures of men in the trenches in the book too. From "The Fifth Leicesters" by Capt J D Hills MC Croix De Guerre, we have a mention of them taking over from the Cheshires of the Fifth Division. (early July 1915) It goes on to say these were 200 yards from the enemy except at the junction of 49 and 50 where they were within 80 yards! (page 43)  Also mentioned is that the enemy guns were so close that the bang was generally heard before the whizz! This book is free on line and well worth a read. Regards, Bob.   https://archive.org/details/leicestershire00hilluoft

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Edited 23 January , 2020 by Bob Davies
To try to remove the spoiler as there isn't one!

[Exaltabit]

Sorry for my delay in replying to all your posts, thanks so muchBob, Don, BorderCollie, WhiteStarLine, fabulous information.

Best wishes,

Ben

[Bob Davies]

Hi Ben, happy to help out. Do you plan a visit to Ypres? If you do best of luck there. Regards, Bob.

[Don Regiano]

3 hours ago, Bob Davies said:

 The  details I have are from "Footprints of the 4th Leicestershire". " And sentimental Private Atkins cleaning his rifle in 47 the international trench ten yards from the Germans" is mentioned, end Sept 1915. There are some pictures of men in the trenches in the book too. From "The Fifth Leicesters" by Capt J D Hills MC Croix De Guerre, we have a mention of them taking over from the Cheshires of the Fifth Division. (early July 1915) It goes on to say these were 200 yards from the enemy except at the junction of 49 and 50 where they were within 80 yards! (page 43)  Also mentioned is that the enemy guns were so close that the bang was generally heard before the whizz! This book is free on line and well worth a read. Regards, Bob.   https://archive.org/details/leicestershire00hilluoft

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Thanks for the info Bob.  Will check out the book.  I'm no expert on Belgium and my trench maps aren't much help.  I guess scouring the various war diaries might produce better results, if somewhat tedious!

 

Regards.

 

Reg

[mikebriggs]

Ben - from a diary entry

Sept 19th. Came off listening post about 4-30 & then same as yesterday till teatime. Went on fatigue at 8 p.m. Very nice day again. Hill 60 bombarded again.

[3289 Pte George William Beardsley]

 

Also here

https://derbyshireterritorials.wordpress.com/2014/09/17/on-this-day-19th-september-1915-2/

 

cheers

Mike