MM Award Gazetted Aug 1919, RASC, what did he do?

[Margosh]

On a separate thread here was a question about the average length of time between action and grant of a Military Medal, which drew my attention as my Great Uncle received the MM, Gazetted 20/8/1919 (I believe the Peace Gazette),  noted in the 15th MAC Diray on 21.2.19.  I have wondered about these dates and the timing but I have been unable so far to trace what exactly the action was for which he was granted the Award.

After some discussion on that other thread I am starting a new one in the hope that someone can help either identify what he did to earn the MM or where I can find the correct 17th Corps Diary which I think is the next step.

 

My Great Uncle is Eli John Young, 568 ASC Company, 15th Motor Ambulance Convoy, Service No M2/120327. I have his full Service Record, he was an ambulance driver for just a few weeks then a Motor Cyclist.

The MM award is shown in the 15 MAC Diary on 21/2/1919.

His Service Record shows the award authorised by 17 Corps Routine Order no 37 of 19/2/19. I think I need to find the 17th Corps Diary but I don't know which 17th Corps, possibly 17th Corps MTC which is mentioned in the Diary (a car and a cyclist sent for duty with DDMS (?) 17 Corps MTC on 24/8/18 is a possible link I found).  I have searched but not found the appropriate Diary.

The MM was Gazetted on 20/8/1919

The medal was sent to him in November 1919, the receipted card is in his Service Record and has a reference number which means nothing to me (see photo). CR/142356/ML(?)19 and Safe No 8115

 

My mother said he received the medal for delivering a message under fire. She did know him but may have been told that by her father (his brother) who was RE but they seem to have kept some contact during the war as I have postcards and photos which suggest they may have done so. So my Grandad may have known the details and mum may have been correct. Or not!

 

Thanks

Margaret

 

 

[mancpal]

Margaret

I'm sorry I can't help with your research but may I say that the photo of him is fabulous. I ought to mention that I know nothing about motorbikes either but the early ones hold a certain fascination with me.

 

Simon

 

[Coldstreamer]

have you tried local newspapers?

also check out the military medal thread on the british medal forum - loads of MM "citations" on there

[charlie962]

On 19/01/2020 at 15:27, Margosh said:

noted in the 15th MAC Diray on 21.2.19.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here ?

 

The only unit war diaries I could see are on National Archives here but only go up to April 1918. War Diaries rarely mention other ranks.

Downloadable at 3.50 a go.

 

Charlie

[Margosh]

23 hours ago, mancpal said:

Margaret

I'm sorry I can't help with your research but may I say that the photo of him is fabulous. I ought to mention that I know nothing about motorbikes either but the early ones hold a certain fascination with me.

 

Simon

 

 

I love this photo, one I have known since I was a small child, it was in my Grandma's Treasure Box.

 

2 hours ago, Coldstreamer said:

have you tried local newspapers?

also check out the military medal thread on the british medal forum - loads of MM "citations" on there

 

I have checked newspapers, only one mention I have found so far, just a list with no details. I had not thought about the BMF - a job for tomorrow.

 

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

I'm not sure what you are referring to here ?

 

The only unit war diaries I could see are on National Archives here but only go up to April 1918. War Diaries rarely mention other ranks.

Downloadable at 3.50 a go.

 

Charlie

 

Charlie, I downloaded the Diary some time ago, in three parts. I have it from September 1915 to April 1919. Uncle Johnny is mentioned by name on 21st April with another chap, also other ranks. Both for MM award. That fits with the mention of 17 Corps RO on 19th Feb, as shown in his Service record, so the dates all tie up.

 

Margaret

 

 

 

[mancpal]

As a slight aside to this topic, can somebody identify the motorbike he sits on?

 

Simon

[Margosh]

I have perused BMF, I have been a member on there for a while but not yet really cracked the way it works. I have searched many combinations but not come up with anything connected.

 

I have however found an entry in the War Diary for HQ Adjutant and QuarterMaster General (I think that is correct) for 17th Corps. This is the authority of 19/2/19 referred to in the 15 MAC Diary, but it doesn't give any further information on what he did. I have started searching for the other chap, H George, in case I can cross reference any information but so far I have only found his MIC (and that his first name was Herbert).

 

I assume the 'Peace Dispatch' mentioned (as it is for other awards in this RO) is the list in the 20th August 1919 London Gazette, the Peace Gazette, so it doesn't really lead me to any tighter time frame on the actual action for which they were awarded. On the other thread I was advised that it is likely to have been between 8/8/18 and 11/11/18.

 

I will keep looking.

 

 

[Gardenerbill]

The commonest motorcycles used by the Army in the Great War were Douglas and Triumph I don't believe the motorcycle in the picture is either of these. Correction,  actually it is a 1913 Douglas 2 3/4 hp Pioneer Motorcycle.

Edited 21 January , 2020 by Gardenerbill

[Gardenerbill]

Link to images of:

 

1913 Douglas 2 3/4 hp Pioneer

[Margosh]

1 hour ago, Gardenerbill said:

Link to images of:

 

1913 Douglas 2 3/4 hp Pioneer

 

I have another photo of him and you can see the name Douglas.

 

[Ivor Anderson]

Hi, I just came across this thread. Just want to confirm that the two MM schedule numbers are consecutive:

283843 Eli John Young,  RASC 15th Motor Ambulance Convoy, Service no M2/120327

             MM Index card here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6298050

283844 Herbert George, RASC 15th Motor Ambulance Convoy, Service no M2/120030

             MM Index card here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6163306

 

I suspect that their MMs were for delivering messages under fire acting as motor cycle despatch riders. I have a MM issued for this - with WD citation:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/282144-asgt-bertram-lechmere-mm-m2020775-mt-co-rasc-att-77-field-ambulance-1918/

 

Edited 27 October , 2020 by Ivor Anderson

[Margosh]

16 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Hi, I just came across this thread. Just want to confirm that the two MM schedule numbers are consecutive:

283843 Eli John Young,  RASC 15th Motor Ambulance Convoy, Service no M2/120327

             MM Index card here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6298050

283844 Herbert George, RASC 15th Motor Ambulance Convoy, Service no M2/120030

             MM Index card here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6163306

 

I suspect that their MMs were for delivering messages under fire acting as motor cycle despatch riders. I have a MM issued for this - with WD citation:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/282144-asgt-bertram-lechmere-mm-m2020775-mt-co-rasc-att-77-field-ambulance-1918/

 

 

Thank you Ivor, I didn't know about the MM cards. It doesn't tell me anything new but good to have so thank you for the link.

Your thread on Bertram Lechmere is interesting, the citation is much as I would imagine Uncle Johnnie's to be as Mum told me it was for delivering a message under fire.