Full set of medals - when?

[ss002d6252]

On the basis that the Star, BWM and VM were issued at different times, when was the earliest a man could have worn all three ribbons together ?

 

Craig

[Coldstreamer]

 

 

Here is a date to work from if someone can get a date from the Order!

 

Commonwealth Naval Order 108 of 1919

BRITISH WAR MEDAL AND VICTORY MEDAL Permission is given to Officers and Men possessing the qualifications required by Admiralty Monthly Orders 3973/19 and 3974/19 to wear the ribands of the British War Medal and Victory Medal. As no general issue of the riband can yet be made, the wearing of ribands is optional.

[ss002d6252]

Thanks, so we're looking at 1919 or later for a full set of ribbons.

 

Craig

[Keith_history_buff]

There's a BBC website article about "They shall not grow old" and some quotes from Peter Jackson. In the article is a photo of 10521 William John Jackson in uniform, Peter's paternal grandfather.(This photo appears at the end of the film, when Jackson dedicates it to the memory of members of his family.) We know from his SWB that he was discharged from the army in March 1919. Of interest is that this photo appears to pre-date his discharge, and the ribbons for his DCM and 1914-15 Star are visible.

 

Whilst the orders will give an indication of when this could have happened, if you wanted to know for a given individual, I guess you would look for surviving service records for other people on the same page of the medal rolls, and hopefully their receipt of medals had survived and is dated too.

[tootrock]

From Wikipedia:

"In March 1919 a committee in Paris comprising representatives from the various allied powers recommended the award of an inter-allied campaign medal of common design,^[2] thereby avoiding the need for allied nations to exchange campaign medals"

This relates to the Victory Medal, so it cannot have been issued before then.

 

Edit:

In the Pall Mall Gazette

On 6 September 1919 it states that the Victory medal riband may now be worn, and 2 inches will be issued to all those entitled.

A competition was to be held for a medal design, with a £500 prize. The winner was announced in January 1920

On 17 November 1920 it states that 171,257 Victory medals have been struck so far, and it will take 4 years to complete the distribution of all medals

 

Martin

 

Edited 18 January , 2020 by tootrock

[ss002d6252]

Excellent, thanks guys.

 

Craig

[Keith_history_buff]

I came across this in the regimental museum on Sauchiehall Street in Glasgow, and it reminded me of the image of William John Jackson.

I would make a stab that this person got his 1914-15 Star whilst serving, was discharged in Feb / March 1919, and thereafter received his BWM & VM when in civvy street.
 

 

 

[PhilB]

Couldn`t that be a 14 star ribbon? I`m assuming that permission to wear the 14 star ribbon preceded the 14/15 star ribbon.

[Coldstreamer]

the 1914 star and 1914/15 star have same ribbon so you cant tell

 

the ribbon could have been added at anytime after

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

On 18/01/2020 at 10:19, tootrock said:

On 17 November 1920 it states that 171,257 Victory medals have been struck so far, and it will take 4 years to complete the distribution of all medals

Four years just  to distribute the medals?

Blimey.

How long did the war last?

 

[PhilB]

2 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Four years just  to distribute the medals?

 

Not bad considering it was presumably a Civil Service responsibility?

[depaor01]

5 hours ago, Coldstreamer said:

the 1914 star and 1914/15 star have same ribbon so you cant tell

But doesn't the 14 star ribbon have the rose device to differentiate them?

 

Dave

[Keith_history_buff]

If that jacket was worn up to March 1919 or thereabouts, the rose had yet to be introduced. Even then, you had to apply for it. 

Perhaps the museum know the identity of the man who wore the jacket. It seems more likely to be a 1914-15 Star than a 1914 Star ribbon, given the amount of medals that were issued.

[horatio2]

10 minutes ago, depaor01 said:

But doesn't the 14 star ribbon have the rose device to differentiate them?

I understood that the purpose of the Rose on the riband (only) was to indicate that the wearer had also been awarded the Clasp to the 1914 Star. If no Rose the ribands (only) were identical.

Edited 14 March , 2020 by horatio2

[GWF1967]

7 minutes ago, depaor01 said:

But doesn't the 14 star ribbon have the rose device to differentiate them?

 

Dave

The clasp/rose was only awarded to those under fire or  in range of German artillery. Less than half of those entitled to the 1914 star were entitled to the clasp.

[Keith_history_buff]

Somewhere on here, there is an account from someone who mentioned that when the 1914 Star was issued, there was anger on the part of those men who deployed to the western front in December 1914 and were illegible. They felt they were equally demanding as an oppo that had deployed a month before. Unfortunately, I've not been able to locate the thread that contains that eyewitness account.

[Keith_history_buff]

On 18/01/2020 at 09:41, ss002d6252 said:

Thanks, so we're looking at 1919 or later for a full set of ribbons.

 

Craig

 

  

On 11/10/2018 at 18:05, kenf48 said:

To follow on from the above post from Steve.

 

1914 Star riband approved 10 December 1917

14-15 Star  approved November 1918, riband as 1914 Star

British War Medal riband approved April 1919, not to be worn or issued until authorised by the War Office. 

First 250 miles of riband issued 4 August 1919

Preliminary issue Victory Medal riband announced December 24 1919 (applicants for BWM need not apply!).

 

Men in the field were given priority for the issue of the Star riband (and medal ) but there were production difficulties given other wartime demands.  As for individual men/units all you can say with certainty BWM riband was not legitimately worn before the 4 August 1919.

 

Gratuitous fascinating fact:-

By January 1922 7 million medals had been  issued, and by April the following year 14 million, when it was announced the total length of ribbon manufactured for all medals was 1,800 miles.

 

 

Ken

Link to Ken's post

I cannot find that eyewitness account. It may have been a comment from someone like Frank Ruchards, yet that comment remains elusive, buried somewhere within the forum.
 

[depaor01]

39 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

I understood that the purpose of the Rose on the riband (only) was to indicate that the wearer had also been awarded the Clasp to the 1914 Star. If no Rose the ribands (only) were identical.

Of course. Thanks for refreshing my memory!

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All, and Craig,

I attach an officer Group Photograph of an average Indian Army regiment in 1919 at Rawalpindi, namely 2/94 Russell's Infantry.

As can be seen, two officers were wearing BWM ribbons. Yet another is wearing his MC Ribbon. Some others are wearing their 14 Star ribbons (the older officer seated at right was, for example, an Old Contemptible NCO and wounded)...

Obviously, it took time to have everybody issued with the ribbons and medals to which they were entitled.

Kindest regards,

Kim.