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HarryBrook

6th Bn. South Lancs Regt., BWM entitlement only

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HarryBrook

Unusual for me to ask for advice, but can someone please offer me an explanation as to why a number of men of 6th Bn. South Lancashire Regt. were entitled to just the BWM although the battalion was apparently serving in Mesopotamia, February 1916 onwards. I am particularly looking at Pte. 50061 John William Naylor. I have seen this entitlement for service in India. This is the link to the award roll on ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5119/41629_625537_9656-00222/5999232?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdbid%3d5119%26gsfn%3dJohn%2bWilliam%26gsln%3dNaylor%26cp%3d0%26hc%3d20%26_F4E2F07A%3d50061%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26uidh%3duci%26redir%3dfalse%26msT%3d1&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults  

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ForeignGong

Hi

As far as I know, to qualify for the BWM a soldier had to leave his home country, but to qualify for the Vict Medal they had to enter a theatre of War. So if he went from the UK to Egypt he would get the BWM and if he didn't go any where else then that would be his entitlement.

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

I believe Mesopotamia became a theatre of war as of January 1st 1916, so if the battalion was located in February 1916, at first glance I would have expected them to be entitled to the Victory medal also.

6th Bn. Had previously been in Egypt, and previously Gallipoli.

 

Have you documentary evidence that these soldiers were actually in Mesopotamia?

 

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Keith_history_buff

I see no other alternative to trying to see if surviving service records for men with similar regimental service numbers have survived. There is no indication on the roll as to the date when these men joined the battalion, whereas a surviving service record for one of Private Naylor's comrades may give some further detail.

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Can you list the men (and their numbers) that you're interested in.

There is a pension record for Harold Pickup 50066, which documents he had malaria at some stage 1916 or later.

(Attested December 1915).

Doesn't state where he contracted it, but probably in a theatre of war. (If India, I would have expeced some reference in record.

MIC shows entitlement to BWM & VM.

Entry into theatre of war not stated (so 1/1/1916 or later).

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

Charles Ives 50077. BWM & VM  Dysentry Bagdad (sic)

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Keith_history_buff
8 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Can you list the men (and their numbers) that you're interested in.

 
You raise a very pertinent point.

Other men on the same page - BWM Only
Folio 147 A

Ancestry image 222 of 336


50065 READ, Walter
50068 ROBERTS, Harry
50097 BENTLEY, James
50183 JOINER, Alfred George William
50185 CLARKE, Gordon Fred
50186 BOWERS, Thomas



 

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

50055 Herbert Miles BWM & VM

50056 Donald Merry BWM & VM

50057 Harry Moody BWM

50058 Harry Nuttall BWM & VM

50059 Willie Newman BWM & VM

50060 Ernest Nuttall  BWM

50061 John Naylor BWM

50062 George Lightowler BWM (& IGSM)

50063 Benjamin Pickles BWM & VM

50064 Laban Pearson BWM & VM

 

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david murdoch
1 hour ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

50055 Herbert Miles BWM & VM

50056 Donald Merry BWM & VM

50057 Harry Moody BWM

50058 Harry Nuttall BWM & VM

50059 Willie Newman BWM & VM

50060 Ernest Nuttall  BWM

50061 John Naylor BWM

50062 George Lightowler BWM (& IGSM)

50063 Benjamin Pickles BWM & VM

50064 Laban Pearson BWM & VM

 

BWM only usually suggests service in India only (ie no theatre of war). 50062 George Lightowler with the IGSM transferred to MGC 285 Coy. A lot of units heading to Mesopotamia actually went via India (Bombay). Possible these men were sick and got left there.

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HarryBrook

Thank you to everyone who has responded to my posting and for contributing their thoughts on this matter.

 

My only interest is in the whereabouts of Pte. 50061 John William Naylor. I was asked by a friend, who is related to him, if I could contribute some information on his military career to her family history research. 

 

In response to Dai Bach y Sowldiwr's question in post #3, the presence of the 6th South Lancs. R. in Mesopotamia is taken from "British Regiments 1914 - 1918" by Brig. E. A. James. I have no other documentary evidence.

 

I take the point about looking for the service records of others on the BWM only roll.

 

I have since thought that it might be useful to check if any of the men on the BWM only roll died and, if so, where they were buried.

 

As David in post #9 noted the issue of a BWM only suggests India and this was my first thought. 

 

I was rather hoping that the knowledgeable forum might have had some insider knowledge and an instant answer. I will have to compile a list of names and numbers from the roll and work through it and see where it leads.

 

My thanks again for your interest in this and your thoughtful contributions. 

 

 

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Keith_history_buff

I have pinged the names of those in my prior post, and none of those men from folio 147 A have surviving service records, unfortunately. Dai's research should be useful in terms of the movements of others at the same time, so it should be possible to determine attestation/mobilisation, when he arrived in India, and the like. 

One future potential source is the next phase of the WFA Pension digitisation. The records pertaining to men who survived and claimed a pension are scheduled to be digitised at the end of this year. Perhaps there is a card for Naylor that will come to light.

 

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HarryBrook

Keith, thanks for taking the trouble to check for the service records of the men on your list in post #7. 

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
2 hours ago, HarryBrook said:

In response to Dai Bach y Sowldiwr's question in post #3, the presence of the 6th South Lancs. R. in Mesopotamia is taken from "British Regiments 1914 - 1918" by Brig. E. A. James. I have no other documentary evidence.

Sorry, It was an ambiguous question, the 6th Bn. were in Mesopotamia.

"these soldiers" meant the soldiers from 6th Bn. with no VM entitlement.

CWGC documents 362 dead in Iraq from the 6th Bn, but the nearest service numbers to your man are 50013 Baker NJ, and 50155 Hinton C, both killed in late 1918.

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Keith_history_buff
3 hours ago, david murdoch said:

BWM only usually suggests service in India only (ie no theatre of war). 50062 George Lightowler with the IGSM transferred to MGC 285 Coy. A lot of units heading to Mesopotamia actually went via India (Bombay). Possible these men were sick and got left there.[Italicised by Keith]


I am wondering if he fell ill in India and did not proceed to Mesopotamia.

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HarryBrook

Thank you for your continued interest. In the next few days I will get down trying to sort this following the advice given.

 

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