Linda C Posted 14 January , 2020 Share Posted 14 January , 2020 I have found that my grandfather's brother was awarded the military medal in WW1 but have no details of why.He was Edward/Edwin Swatman and served in 4th Bat. East Yorkshire regiment no. 200679 and held rank of corporal at time of award. The medal was issued for bravery in France and notification was in the Gazette 13/09/18. The certificate is a little blurred but I believe it states "Registered paper 18/121/603A" and schedule no. 184281There is a report in HULL DAILY MAIL dated 22/08/1918 which also mentions 3 serving brothers and a brother-in-law who was a prisoner in German hands. I would be grateful for any further information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 15 January , 2020 Share Posted 15 January , 2020 He was wounded according to the casualty list of July 16th 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 15 January , 2020 Share Posted 15 January , 2020 (edited) welcome , have you tried local newspapers? also check the british medal forum data base of MM "citations" - hundreds if not thousands on there you may get lucky if you look in the war diary for 3-6 months back from gazette date - but often the men don't get a mention in them Edited 15 January , 2020 by Coldstreamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarsA Posted 15 January , 2020 Share Posted 15 January , 2020 Unfortunately not on BMF. ATB, Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 17 January , 2020 Share Posted 17 January , 2020 Coldstreamer's advice would take you to the war diary for the period at the National Archives: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14055730 or here on Ancestry: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43849_2835_0-00000?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=43849_2835_0-00625 Inclusion in a July casualty list and the item in the newspapers which refers to being wounded in June (reports were often delayed) point to the action on 27 May 1918 when the battalion were attacked and effectively knocked out as a battalion, the remnants being formed, with others, into a composite battalion that was withdrawn from the line in mid June. The description of the action does not, name names (see Coldstreamer above) but it does refer to isolated parties fighting rearguard actions as they attempted to withdraw across the Aisne river. This is just the sort of thing that after the event would lead to one or more awards to men who distinguished themselves during that period. Further reading of relevant diaries may find something, the 50 Divisional diary has a list with brief citations for a medal award ceremony in May of 1918. More work needed! Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 17 January , 2020 Share Posted 17 January , 2020 In continuation of post #5. By way of illustrating what a hit and miss affair finding award details is, on 23 May 1918, General Officer Commanding 50 Division presented medal ribbons to a number of officers and men. The citation for Private Turner, who was awarded the MM, states that it was for his gallantry in a daylight raid on 13 December 1917. His award was gazetted on 12 March 1918. Another man was awarded the MM for his actions on 23 Oct 1917, it was gazetted on 1 Feb 1918. The attached list illustrates also that awards were not necessarily made for one single gallant act but also for sustained bravery over a period. Unfortunately I find no similar list with Swatman's name. ( or indeed any other such list in the same diary (HQ 50 Div DAAQMG). Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda C Posted 21 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2020 Many thanks to all who have posted to help me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 22 January , 2020 Share Posted 22 January , 2020 (edited) On 15/01/2020 at 00:30, Linda C said: I would be grateful for any further information. Probably not related to his MM award but ? You may not already have this but he was previously wounded in 1916. The Daily Casualty List of 21st Aug 1916 lists him as E Yorks, wounded, L Cpl E Swatman, 2528. Your GF's brother's early number was 2578. I am sure that 2528 in the caslist was a typo error at the time (not uncommon) and the entry refers to your man. Actual wounding would have been some time early July 1916. War Diary here on Ancestry doesn't mention him but gives a good background narrative. Given that he first landed in France (per his Medal Index Card) 17/4/15 which was the date the 1/4th East Yorks landed, I think it is fair to assume he remained with 4th Bn throughout (which is not always the case when a soldier is wounded and evacuated from his Battalion) Charlie Edited 22 January , 2020 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 22 January , 2020 Share Posted 22 January , 2020 On 17/01/2020 at 12:45, MaxD said: the action on 27 May 1918 when the battalion were attacked and effectively knocked out as a battalion, the remnants being formed, with others, into a composite battalion that was withdrawn from the line in mid June. The 150th bde War Diary has this interesting Casualty Summary (Killed, Wounded and Missing) for May 1918 demonstrating the scale of loss to the Brigade: Courtesy National Archives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 22 January , 2020 Share Posted 22 January , 2020 Hi Linda C, On 14/01/2020 at 23:30, Linda C said: a brother-in-law who was a prisoner in German hands Do you know his name, DoB, etc? Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda C Posted 27 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 27 January , 2020 Thanks Charlie 962, I found your information very interesting, plus I didn't know that he had been wounded twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda C Posted 29 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2020 Chris (clk). His name was Alfred Mills. On this website http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/ I found him in Red Cross prisoner of war records. It's definitely him as shown by his home address in Hull. The records are in German, there is a number but I think it is his prisoner number rather than his regiment number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 29 January , 2020 Share Posted 29 January , 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Linda C said: His name was Alfred Mills. Are you talking about Sgt Alfred Mills 11/605 who is from 19, Hannahs Terrace, Dalton, Hull ? Born 7/4/92 Stalybridge Are you trying to trace the military service of the other family members ? Charlie Edited 29 January , 2020 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 30 January , 2020 Share Posted 30 January , 2020 The entries in German about the man that Charlie queries give the information that he was in 11 Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment, that he was captured at Oppy in France on 3 May 1917 and in August 1917 he was in the POW camp at Soltau having passed through Dulmen and Limburg. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 30 January , 2020 Share Posted 30 January , 2020 Hi Linda, On 14/01/2020 at 23:30, Linda C said: There is a report in HULL DAILY MAIL dated 22/08/1918 which also mentions 3 serving brothers and a brother-in-law who was a prisoner in German hands On 29/01/2020 at 16:11, Linda C said: His name was Alfred Mills Elizabeth Swatman (24 Withernsea Street, father Robert) married Alfred Mills in December 1911. In the 1911 Census at that address were: Image sourced from Ancestry Given the age of Harold, presumably the other '3 serving brothers' were William, George, and Albert. Are you looking for help with any info on them too? Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda C Posted 6 February , 2020 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2020 (edited) clk clk hi Chris, yes this is the family. The other 3 serving brothers were William: Royal Dublin Fusiliers 28783 and East Yorks 12252, James: (Walter James) driver RFA both serving in France, and George with the Canadians in England. George was wounded too. Not sure why George was with the Canadians, though someone told me they were better paid! I am not actively researching these at present though any information you may would be most welcome. MaxD Thanks for interpreting the record for me regarding Alfred Mills. Charlie962 Yes, that is the Alfred Mills I meant. I am not actively researching the military service of the other family members at present but any information you may have would be most welcome. Edited 6 February , 2020 by Linda C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 6 February , 2020 Share Posted 6 February , 2020 Hi Linda, 50 minutes ago, Linda C said: … and George with the Canadians in England. George was wounded too. Not sure why George was with the Canadians, though someone told me they were better paid! His service file is held in the Canadian Archives - link. Where it shows click on it to download +60 pages, rather than just the 4 pages in the initial view. I didn't go through it, but I suspect that he had emigrated to Canada in search of opportunities and a better life, but felt the need to join up to support his mother country, family and friends. The service file should show which units he served with in France/Flanders, and you could cross reference to the unit war diaries which are available as free downloads from the Canadian Archives - link. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda C Posted 9 February , 2020 Author Share Posted 9 February , 2020 clk Chris, thank you so much for this information. I have read all 60+ pages and printed some off. Have also looked at war diaries. George's records are mainly medical records as he was wounded shortly after arriving in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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