Badges on Brodie Helmet

[Sapper Woodgate]

Hello

 

I just viewed 1917.

 

I noticed that the Brodie Helmets worn by British soldiers featured Regimental Badges at the front.

 

This is the first time I have seen this, normally the helmet is bare - is it accurate?

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Sapper Woodgate said:

Hello

 

I just viewed 1917.

 

I noticed that the Brodie Helmets worn by British soldiers featured Regimental Badges at the front.

 

This is the first time I have seen this, normally the helmet is bare - is it accurate?

It is accurate, but not all regiments did it.  Similarly some units had painted formation signs.  Many others covered helmets with hessian (sacking).  There was no universally agreed consistency.  You'll  get a more accurate impression for how things were by watching  "They Shall Not Grow Old", which is actual film, although predominantly taken in 1916.  The fixing of badges came to be seen more in the latter years of the war.

Edited 14 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Andrew Upton]

5 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

It is accurate, but not all regiments did it.  Similarly some units had painted formation signs.  Many others covered helmets with hessian (sacking).  There was no universally agreed consistency.  You'll  get a more accurate impression for how things were by watching  "They Shall Not Grow Old", which is actual film, although predominantly taken in 1916.  The fixing of badges came to be seen more in the latter years of the war.

 

It is the other way round - fixing of actual badges to helmets was officially banned relatively early on (1916 or 1917 as I recall) as it was found punching holes into and soldering onto the metal weakened the strength of the helmet. Units that wanted to apply badges after this ban were allowed to stencil or otherwise paint their helmets instead. There is a thread somewhere on the forum with the full details of this order...

 

Edited 14 January , 2020 by Andrew Upton

[FROGSMILE]

1917 would make sense Andrew.  That was why I’d thought they were more common in the latter years, as one rarely sees them in the famous 1916 Somme filming.  I don’t doubt for one moment that what you’ve said about a ban is true. Thank you for posting that interesting information.

[Michael Haselgrove]

Andrew,

I think this may be the thread, or at least one of them, that you are thinking of?

Regards,

Michael.

 

[Sapper Woodgate]

8 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

 

It is the other way round - fixing of actual badges to helmets was officially banned relatively early on (1916 or 1917 as I recall) as it was found punching holes into and soldering onto the metal weakened the strength of the helmet. Units that wanted to apply badges after this ban were allowed to stencil or otherwise paint their helmets instead. There is a thread somewhere on the forum with the full details of this order...

 

Thanks, I've never noticed it before and I've watched a lot of WW I footage, also Commonwealth Forces seem to be totally bare of this, Ive never seen an AIF helmet with a badge.

 

The ones in the movie appear to be molded or pressed into the steel helmet, I'm quite confident they were never this way.

 

They also have them as standard for all men across two regiments, Devonshires and Yorks and I think they have some service Corps as well, this simply was not the case.

[FROGSMILE]

48 minutes ago, Sapper Woodgate said:

Thanks, I've never noticed it before and I've watched a lot of WW I footage, also Commonwealth Forces seem to be totally bare of this, Ive never seen an AIF helmet with a badge.

 

The ones in the movie appear to be molded or pressed into the steel helmet, I'm quite confident they were never this way.

 

They also have them as standard for all men across two regiments, Devonshires and Yorks and I think they have some service Corps as well, this simply was not the case.

I’ve never seen them molded or pressed either.  Those that I have seen looked as if they were mounted externally. I thought that they might’ve been soldered on, so I’m surprised to learn that there was any drilling of holes.

Edited 14 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Sepoy]

Here is an unknown Officer wearing a Steel Helmet complete with a mounted cap badge.
I have been unable to positively identify the badge, so would be grateful for any assistance.

Sepoy

Edited 15 January , 2020 by Sepoy

[FROGSMILE]

19 minutes ago, Sepoy said:

Here is an unknown Officer wearing a Steel Helmet complete with cap badge.
I have been unable to positively identify the badge, so would be grateful for any assistance.

Sepoy

 

He (the MC recipient) is Connaught Rangers, Sepoy.  Oddly he has OSD on his helmet, but seems to have the same badge on his collar in gilt in lieu of the more usual elephant collar badges worn by other ranks and in full dress.  Clearly an OSD policy.

Edited 15 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Sepoy]

Thank you Frogsmile.

That was my initial thought, but the longer I looked at the badge and collars the less they looked like the Connaughts,

Cheers

Sepoy

NB This is the only photograph, I have with a badged steel helmet.

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, Sepoy said:

Thank you Frogsmile.

That was my initial thought, but the longer I looked at the badge and collars the less they looked like the Connaughts,

Cheers

Sepoy

NB This is the only photograph, I have with a badged steel helmet.

It’s an interesting image.  He seems to have officers of an Irish fusilier regiment in front of him and a Middlesex Regt officer by his left shoulder.  Perhaps the Bde can be narrowed down.

Edited 15 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Sepoy]

17 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

It’s an interesting image.  He seems to have officers of an Irish fusilier regiment in front and Middlesex Regt by his left shoulder.  Perhaps the Bde can be narrowed down.

Here is the original "course" photograph.

Sepoy

Following my above comment about the Connaught Ranger Officer being the only steel helmet with a badge, the second seated Captain (on our left) may have a badge. I also like the stenciled "ECAG" helmets,

Edited 15 January , 2020 by Sepoy

[FROGSMILE]

Fascinating photo and taken late in the war I think.  The sergeant far left with soft forage cap seems to have received his 1914/15 star.

The ECAG helmets clearly belong to the school and presumably are signed out to those students who have not brought their own.

[Sepoy]

4 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Fascinating photo and taken late in the war I think.  The sergeant far left with soft forage cap seems to have received his 1914/15 star.

The ECAG helmets clearly belong to the school and presumably are signed out to those students who have not brought their own.

I suspect that the Suffolk Regiment (?) chap, with the soft forage cap, is more likely to be wearing a 1914 Star ribbon, rather than a 1914/15 Star, The former was instituted in November, 1917 and the latter was instituted in December, 1918.

[Sapper Woodgate]

59 minutes ago, Sepoy said:

Here is the original "course" photograph.

Sepoy

Following my above comment about the Connaught Ranger Officer being the only steel helmet with a badge, the second seated Captain (on our left) may have a badge. I also like the stenciled "ECAG" helmets,

 

 

Thanks, I think we can take it from this pic that the helmte badge was quite rare,

 

 

 

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

The presence of the RFC Pilot is interesting - as is the whole group!

I could not spot any AIF officers (perhaps they ran their own Schools/Courses).

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[robins2]

7 hours ago, Sapper Woodgate said:

Thanks, I've never noticed it before and I've watched a lot of WW I footage, also Commonwealth Forces seem to be totally bare of this, Ive never seen an AIF helmet with a badge.

 

The ones in the movie appear to be molded or pressed into the steel helmet, I'm quite confident they were never this way.

 

They also have them as standard for all men across two regiments, Devonshires and Yorks and I think they have some service Corps as well, this simply was not the case.

a Canadian example

Edited 15 January , 2020 by robins2
add

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, Sepoy said:

I suspect that the Suffolk Regiment (?) chap, with the soft forage cap, is more likely to be wearing a 1914 Star ribbon, rather than a 1914/15 Star, The former was instituted in November, 1917 and the latter was instituted in December, 1918.

Yes, I had meant to indicate that he had one or t’other, but didn’t make myself clear.

Edited 15 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Grovetown]

6 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Fascinating photo and taken late in the war I think. 

 

Plenty of OS chevrons on show to go with the Star ribbon too, so 1918 at least.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

[Andrew Upton]

13 hours ago, Michael Haselgrove said:

Andrew,

I think this may be the thread, or at least one of them, that you are thinking of?

Regards,

Michael.

 

 

Thanks Michael, post 20/GRO 1997 of 14th December 1916 is certainly what I was thinking of!

 

Edited 15 January , 2020 by Andrew Upton

[FROGSMILE]

Apparently Eastern Command 

3 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said:

 

Thanks Michael, post 20/GRO 1997 of 14th December 1916 is certainly what I was thinking of!

 

Which for practical purposes would have taken real effect in 1917 given flash to bang administrative lag.

[FROGSMILE]

On 15/01/2020 at 03:05, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear All,

The presence of the RFC Pilot is interesting - as is the whole group!

I could not spot any AIF officers (perhaps they ran their own Schools/Courses).

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Apparently Eastern Command was part of the Home establishment administrative command structure and was responsible for the training facilities of the 12th and 18th (Eastern) Divisions of the New Armies, so that’s probably why there was no AIF involvement, Kim.

 

Edited 16 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Grovetown said:

 

Plenty of OS chevrons on show to go with the Star ribbon too, so 1918 at least.

 

Cheers,

 

GT.

Yes I thought it had the look of being very late in the war too.  Apparently the Eastern Command HQ was in London, but I wonder where the ECAG was?  Somewhere like Salisbury Plain, perhaps.

Edited 15 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Sapper Woodgate]

Here is a good one from the movie of the Devons.

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, Sapper Woodgate said:

Here is a good one from the movie of the Devons.

 

I think that looks more like an East Surrey Regiment badge, did they feature?