Photo of officers and NCOs - Notts & Derby connection?

[apt50]

I have long been puzzled by the photograph, maybe taken after a shooting match, as it most likely belonged to  my grandfather, who never rose above the rank of private.

I have been unable to reach agreement with other people who have seen the photograph as to regiment or as to whether it dates from WWI. If it does, I think it may date to late 1914

when my grandfather was undergoing training after enlistment in the Sherwood Foresters. The photograph has the usual postcard back and gives no information at to the photographer

or when or where it was taken.

I would welcome any help as to the when, where, who and why!

[Mark1959]

The various colours of uniform and the non-standard arm embroidery of 2 of the sitters I think would point to a unit not part of the full time army. The cap badge I am pretty sure is not the Sherwoods. No expert.

[Polar Bear]

I would second that especially when one looks at the two weapons (proudly?) on display. Those aren't Enfields! Also as stated the cap badge is not Sherwood Foresters. Not sure what it is though!

[travers61]

The tunics with the two buttons on the front of the belt were issued to the Volunteer Training Corps, the WW1 version of the WW2 Home Guard, and they used the embroidered design on the officers cuffs. They existed all over the country. This would also account for the age of a couple of the men, especily the gent in the back row with specs, who may not have had good enough eye sight for the full-time army.

 

As with the Home Guard it took a while for the units to receive Lee Enfield Rifles & whatever weapons they could obtain were used.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_Training_Corps

 

I agree it looks like a winning team in a shooting contest.

 

The VTC will feature on other posts on this forum.

Edited 14 January , 2020 by travers61
add website

[JOVE23]

Those are Martini-Henry rifles, so I would definitely peg this as a rear echelon sort of unit.

[apt50]

Many thanks to all for your replies. I now start looking for family members who may have been in the volunteer forces! I would appreciate any assistance with the

possible date of the photograph. Would I be right in thinking that the uniforms and ranks shown suggest a date after the the application of the provisions of the Volunteer Act 1863 in 1916 (I have been doing some research along the lines suggested)? If so and if before July 1918 should the cap badges be the General Service badge and are they? Or is the quality of the photograph not good enough to tell? I doubt the quality is good enough to post in Uniforms, Cap Badges and Insignia, so I will add an attempt at a closer look at some of the caps

[FROGSMILE]

They are all VTC as stated and the photo must have been taken before 1918, as there are neither GSC, nor the badges supplied when they became volunteer battalions of regular regiments as was authorised towards the end of the war.  Instead they wear the VTC badges associated with their battalion’s location.  However, the NCOs are wearing the second pattern rank badges that were the same as those used by regular soldiers, whereas to begin with they had a unique VTC pattern.

 

If you’re able to say where the subject of your inquiry lived it ought to be possible to identify the cap badge concerned?  As well as the special jackets mentioned above the officers (seated centrally) had special cuff rank formed from two coloured lace configured as so-called ‘Austrian knots’.

 

NB.  There seems to be a beast of some kind as the central emblem within the badge.  There were a great many VTC unit badges.  Some were based on a common design of crossed rifles, laurel wreath, title scroll, and superimposed crown, but many were unique.  Very few looked anything like regular army badges.  So far no one has published a complete record of all these badges as far as I know, although quite a number are included in Vol 1 of the two volume work on British Military Head-dress Badges by Kipling and King. 

 

Edited 14 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[TTracer44]

from Rutland and the Great War

[apt50]

Thank you for the further comments. I have quickly read through the "Official" Regulations for the VTC produced by the Central Association of Volunteer Training Corps to try to increase my understanding of matters. To further pin down the date, does the fact that some of the jackets of the 'NCOs' confirm to the Regulations (permissible alternative style)  while others have different belts suggest the photograph might be nearer 1916 than 1915? When were the second pattern rank badges referred to by FROGSMILE introduced? At what stage was it not necessary to wear the brassards, or was this requirement at times ignored? At what point would it have been likely the unit would have been able to obtain Martini-Henry rifles? Any further assistance will be gratefully received.

 

While much has been explained to me by the replies to my query, my task to trying to identify anyone on the photo has become more difficult, Mainly on the not very secure basis of having two copies of the photograph, I believe there is a family connection, rather than the photo having been received from friend or neighbour. I know of no-one who was in a volunteer force and would need to identify the VTC to narrow down possibilities. The most likely one would have been the Derbyshire Volunteer Regiment of Home Guards, but it is with only slight caution that I suggest that it is not its cap badge.