Hogenaker Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 I read with interest Chris Polledine’s excellent Campaign books and hope that there are 1916-18 follow ups. Of particular interest was the section on Simplified Uniforms. I confess that I never knew about Simplified Trousers. I have posted some pictures of some British made ones which upto 2015 and Chris’ book we’re not know to exist. They are an exact match to the US made ones except less green in colour. The paper label shows 1915 date. The buttons are in pairs and are dished brass. I just thought that it would be an interesting post script to pages 22-23to see some definite British made ones. All other features straight back and the weird watch pocket are all present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Fabulous!! I have seen a couple of SD jackets by this maker, one dated 1917, but never any trousers let alone Simplified. Amazing what's out there. I have a Simplified pair that have had side pockets let into them, no markings but I think they too are probably US made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krithia Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Wow, these are lovely and follow the pattern to the Boer War serge trousers closely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogenaker Posted 13 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Hi there thanks for the post. I never knew that Simplified stuff replace 02 from Oct 1914 until June 1915! That is an amazing development! Your trousers if American would make it 4 known pairs. There must be more British ones out there. Let’s see what others post. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogenaker Posted 13 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Thanks for the post. Were Boer War trousers simplified/ economy versions as well? I think I read that 02 trousers had a high back to protect the kidneys. i don’t think that I’ve ever seen a pair. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krithia Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Whilst I have seen several pairs of American made simplified trousers, and they are always a horrid thick wool, there appear to be very few British made simplified trousers out there. The Boer War '02 trousers' are actually earlier, Pattern 4915/1899, sealed on 10th October 1899 as "Trousers, Khaki, Serge" (thanks to Joe Sweeney for this info). They are nearly identical to the blue serge trousers of the Victorian period. There was never a simplified version of these, but by design they were made simply if that makes sense. It looks like the WW1 Simplified version were modelled on the earlier pattern e.g. fob pocket, no side pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 January , 2020 Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Very interesting images, thank you for posting. The absence of pockets and non elasticated suspender braces was the reason why so many British soldiers favoured money belts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogenaker Posted 14 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2020 Thanks for that I can see why money belts would be useful. on the Boer war point what were the soldiers wearing on the outbreak of war as that was October 1899 same month as the trousers were approved? Who knew that trousers were so interesting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 14 January , 2020 Share Posted 14 January , 2020 (edited) When the 2nd Anglo/Boer war began British troops were wearing khaki drill (KD - a stout cotton twill) made in one of two patterns depending on where they’d come from, the home establishment (Britain and Ireland) or the Indian establishment (garrisons in India and associated territories). Edited 14 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 14 January , 2020 Share Posted 14 January , 2020 (edited) Truly great find. Service Dress trousers have always been rarer than the jackets, and simplified trousers incredibly rare next to the simplified jackets, which themselves are really hard to find. I am aware of three pairs of US made items (and having owned both pairs in Campaign 1915 at some point). They all came from the same source in the US. I believe yours plus Wainfleet's pair make for the only five known, although there must be more somewhere. Interesting to note too the the cloth is described as Tartan Drab, rather than serge. While aware of this cloth variation, I've only seen it mentioned on trouser labels - never jackets. Cheers, GT. Edited 14 January , 2020 by Grovetown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 14 January , 2020 Share Posted 14 January , 2020 (edited) I was intrigued by the use of drab tartan as a nomenclature. The word, tartan, seems to have completely lost its original meaning, as far as I can tell, as it’s now only mentioned in a Scottish context of multicoloured chequering in woven cloth. It’s difficult to find a contemporary description of tartan cloth that doesn’t focus on kilts and plaids. Even in 1916 America the Webster Dictionary does not refer to anything else. As far as I can tell the original meaning from a clothier’s, or mercer’s point of view was a cloth created from two colours, with each single thread of one colour woven over a thread of the other colour; one warp and the other weft. From the British Military perspective this most famously produced the grey oxford trousers, which were a mixture of natural off-white sheep wool with natural black sheep wool. No dyes were required and the result was a charcoal grey with a so-called heathered, or salt and pepper appearance. This ‘tartan’ cloth was invariably used most for trousers, with serge more commonly used for frocks and jackets. Examination of British Army clothing regulations from the Victorian and early WW1 era fairly universally abide by those distinctions. I would be interested to learn from anyone else who can help reclaim a little this original use of the word tartan before it disappears completely. Edited 14 January , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark holden Posted 14 January , 2020 Share Posted 14 January , 2020 Superb item thanks for such great photographs you have extended my knowledge of WW1 uniforms. The power of this forum and its collective of experts. Regards Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogenaker Posted 14 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2020 I’d like to thank everyone for their thoughts and information, freely given. I’m pleased with the response and amazed at what people know. Whilst this stuff isn’t in the book it’s the post script I had hoped for. There is now a Simplified Trouser Thread ( no pun intended) with pictures that can be googled. thank you Hogenaker. PS were there KD simplified trousers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krithia Posted 14 January , 2020 Share Posted 14 January , 2020 12 hours ago, Grovetown said: I am aware of three pairs of US made items (and having owned both pairs in Campaign 1915 at some point). They all came from the same source in the US. I believe yours plus Wainfleet's pair make for the only five known, although there must be more somewhere. Add two more. I had a mint simplified and trousers (US made) and there is another I know of ... so that's seven. Can anyone raise it to eight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 15 January , 2020 Share Posted 15 January , 2020 10 hours ago, Krithia said: Add two more. I had a mint simplified and trousers (US made) and there is another I know of ... so that's seven. Can anyone raise it to eight? I think the mint set might overlap with the three pairs I'm thinking of. I bought a complete matching 'suit' still in a box from the tailor (Burton-Pierce) on eBay - an absolute bargain at £615.00 in today's money. The jacket is on p. 14 of Campaign 1915. Joe was after them for ages. I moved them on - you know the owner - to finance an upgrade. The same source also produced another two pairs of trousers - if not another jacket and trousers. All mint and unissued. Wonder if we're talking about the same items. Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krithia Posted 15 January , 2020 Share Posted 15 January , 2020 A different set Grovetown, and funny enough an online buy-it now price. This one had plain 'GS' buttons on the jacket, so similar to one of your sets. I would guess the same US source and never issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted 1 August , 2021 Share Posted 1 August , 2021 On 13/01/2020 at 20:52, Hogenaker said: I read with interest Chris Polledine’s excellent Campaign books and hope that there are 1916-18 follow ups. Of particular interest was the section on Simplified Uniforms. I confess that I never knew about Simplified Trousers. I have posted some pictures of some British made ones which upto 2015 and Chris’ book we’re not know to exist. They are an exact match to the US made ones except less green in colour. The paper label shows 1915 date. The buttons are in pairs and are dished brass. I just thought that it would be an interesting post script to pages 22-23to see some definite British made ones. All other features straight back and the weird watch pocket are all present. Hi how deep is the small pocket on the waistband? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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