New Munich Trench, Hawthorn Crater

[andrew pugh]

Good Evening to you All

Could anyone tell me who constructed New Munich Trench? was it originally dug by German troops or was it dug by British troops?And just one more question, what was the time and date that Hawthorn Crater was blown for the second time in November 1916?

Your answers would be most helpful

Kind Regards

Andy

 

[peterhogg]

Hi Andrew.  My quick reference to a couple of my  books concerning the Nov 13 attacks states;

 

1.  The mine was blown on November 13 at 5.45 am.

 

2.  New Munich trench was dug by members of the 51st Div. 

[Simon Birch]

Andy,

51 Div war diary for 13/14th Nov. 1916 says 'During the night a trench, later names 'NEW MUNICH' was dug parallel to, and about 150 yards to the west of MUNICH TRENCH, and was occupied.'

Simon

[GFW]

On 15/01/2020 at 12:55, Simon Birch said:

Andy,

51 Div war diary for 13/14th Nov. 1916 says 'During the night a trench, later names 'NEW MUNICH' was dug parallel to, and about 150 yards to the west of MUNICH TRENCH, and was occupied.'

Simon

Hello Simon,

A member of my family is buried is this cemetery. I would like to know if location of the founded bodies is in WD.

Thank you

Pierre

[Simon Birch]

Sorry Pierre for the slowness of my reply and again sorry - I can see nothing like to sort of information you require.

What was the name of your relative - And do you have access to Find my Past and Ancestry? If not am happy to search for you...

Simon

[Neill Gilhooley]

The Royal Engineers and 8^th Royal Scots (Pioneers) dug ‘New Munich Trench’, probably with help from 7th Argylls and 9th Royal Scots who were present.

[GFW]

1 hour ago, Simon Birch said:

Sorry Pierre for the slowness of my reply and again sorry - I can see nothing like to sort of information you require.

What was the name of your relative - And do you have access to Find my Past and Ancestry? If not am happy to search for you...

Simon

Hello Simon,

My relative is Corporal Douglas Rawlings, S/N 210, 10th Royal Fusiliers, KIA 16th November 1916. he was buried in spring  when German left the. I woild like to know where he was killed during the 16th Nov assaut.

10th Royal Fusiliers War Diaries, Find my Past, Ancestry and CWGC did not give the information. I thougt CWGC had the Burial Report of Douglas but this document does not exist.

Have you any more information? Thanks in advance.

Best regards,

Pierre

 

[Simon Birch]

Ok have looked at this. Neither the division or brigade war diaries record the sort information that you want.

 

My reading of the battalion war diary is that there were two attacks by 10 RF's on 16.11.1916, one started at dawn on the 16th and one at 15.45. Given that there were only 3 others ranks in 10 RF KIA on that day, attack may be the wrong word. The battalion war diary does detail the starting positions of both 'attacks' - but without knowing which one Douglas became KIA it is impossible to tell where he actually fell (Unless someone more able that me can tell you different)

However it is possible to follow his route once the attack started - even if you don't know where Douglas finally met his end. I can plot his final journey on a trenchmap and put that into a powerpoint slide if that helps. The area is quite small. If you want me to do that PM me with your e-mail address and I will get it done this weekend.

 

Simon

[GFW]

I agree with you.

They were two 'attacks' by unexperimented Soldiers.

Fog and snow did arrange the sirtuation. I have sent you a personal message.

Pierre.