The Inspector Posted 7 January , 2020 Share Posted 7 January , 2020 (edited) Hi All A bit more family info. Louis Strauss, b.15.7.1861 died 20.11.1944 309 Bury New Road, Salford 7, Lancs. (8d,628) , aged 83 yrs. Administration to Harry Strauss, Electrician, 31st. Jan. 1946. Next entry on probate is for Sarah Strauss 309 Bury New Road, Salford 7, Lancs. widow, died 30th Dec., 1945 at 91 Eccles Old Road, Salford 6, Lancs. (84yrs, 8d,577) probate Manchester 23rd Jan., 1946 to Harry Strauss, Electrician...searching for more.. Regards Barry Edited 7 January , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 8 January , 2020 Share Posted 8 January , 2020 On 06/01/2020 at 22:41, RaySearching said: wrote post 78 2) The timing of the pension application, I suggest, is likely to be after the passage of time for him to be officially declared dead. If so, by who and where? Which raises the questions why was the pension document generated in the first place, by whom and where did the following information Internment Camp 183 Batt B.E.F Chanak on the card originate from None of these questions have yet been successfully answered Last date/place known to be alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeriCourtney Posted 8 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2020 Sorry to have been silent, and thank you Charlie for the info about the non-relative J Strauss and the one journey passport. I had realised it wasn't him but useful to be reminded. I am struggling a bit with arranging the NA visit as their website managed to completely discard my application for a Reader's Ticket, not once but 3 times, then the Chat managed to sever a connection as I was halfway transmitting a script to them for help. This was followed by a phonecall when I was invited to go and make my application there direct, and then return another day to pick it up, but as that would be a hellish journey for me I have now sent an email asking what is going on, so am waiting to head to Kew when I get a response. I am planning to see the Deportation Register which requires me to attend the Reading Room and hoping there will be more to find out, and Charlie and GUEST and ordering the FO papers to read, plus anything else I can find that could be significant. Regarding my great grandmother, Barry, her maiden name was Yakobzon and then Mark after her marriage. I think she was born circa 1850s, ten years or so before Sarah. Sarah's son, Harry, was the only one left at home and looked after both his father and mother, hence I guess the wills. I think the house was probably rented and he also ran his own business so a lot to take on. I have since heard from from my cousin and he is very grateful for all the help you have given me and, like me, amazed by what you all know. He has now given me more information about his family which would have been helpful to have had from the beginning, and saved some time, but I am where I am. I am still waiting for the Army Museum to respond to my question about the 183rd Battery or Battalion, but that could take another five weeks. Why was it chosen if James was only a civilian? The Pension Card remains a mystery at the moment. One thing I did notice was that there was no indication of anything having been stapled to it, or any holes which might have indicated it had been part of a file. I posted on a genealogy site that I use regularly in case there was anyone with experiptiss in this direction but, so far, no responses. Maybe if David is browsing this thread then can you let me know please David if there would be a further file in your experience? Clearly this Pension must have been requested, if not by Rose then someone connected to the particular unit with responsibility. There was a mention about Harry Strauss and his service in the forces. Harry was 'rounded up' and did not join willingly! How James was missed seems odd given this information. I wouldn't think being a cycle maker was the sort of skilled occupation to exempt you, but nevertheless Harry was NOT a British citizen any more than James, so it is still hard to understand how it happened and whether the rules about citizenship changed at various times during the war periods. incidentally, can I ask if any of you know of David O'Mara and, if so, does he have a particular area of expertise? I saw his lecture advertised concerning the Russian Expeditionary Force and wondered if the Russians, particularly, were a speciality. Thanks as always for your help. I remain optimistic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 8 January , 2020 Share Posted 8 January , 2020 (edited) Hi Geri Currently looking at the Lithuania censuses, Your g/g/mother's first name DINA ?/middle names and husband's and place of marriage , if you know it, will help a great deal. If you know any of the sibling's names even better. Regards Barry. ???Dina Yakobzon, b.1844, 26th May 1858 living in Zagare, Siauliai,Kaunas, Father Gilel, 36 yrs, mother Freyde,daughter Liba 10yrs. ??? Is this the family Edited 8 January , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeriCourtney Posted 8 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2020 Barry, her name was Dina/Dine Yakobzon/Yacobson/Yakobson , no other name that I know of, and my great grandfather was Rachmiel/Rachmil Mark, no other name for him. Both born roughly in 1850s and Rachmiel was almost certainly born in Zagare or Novy Zagare. I sadly have no other information on them. I wouldn't even know where to find a Census unless you are looking at the LItvak All Lithuania database. Hope I've given you enough information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 9 January , 2020 Share Posted 9 January , 2020 Hi Geri Searching for your g/g/father I have come across one Rakhmel Leyba Mark who in 1896 was listed as 3 yrs of age. His father is shown as Yankel Gilel Mark b.1854. living in Utena,Ukmerge, Kaunas. Yankel's wife is Estra Rivka Mark b.1854. Yankel's mother was Gena b. 1816 d. 1891/92? The above Rakhmel is the only one who comes up on the"Lithuania, Litvak SIG, Census and Family Lists from 1795-1900"...https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=JG_NEWRLD&indiv=try&h=287499. I know the age is too young however there may well be a connection to the Yakobzon family previously posted.https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1369&h=13830&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=iyp349&_phstart=successSource....searching Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeriCourtney Posted 9 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2020 Hi Barry, Well that is very interesting! Ashkenazi Jews have a traditional habit of naming children after deceased relatives, so once you find a good records website you are usually away, as you can trace every other generation as they appear. For instance, my Grandpa was named for his grandfather who had died before he was born, an uncle for his great grandfather. I think that by 1895 my great grandfather had already decamped to Riga preparatory to leaving Russia en route for the UK. They lived in the Pale as part of establishing themselves. From family lore, the children who were young adults by this time left first, mostly individually, and then he and my great grandmother left next with a son who looked after them. The people you've found are living in the county of Kaunas (Kovno) and that is the same county as my great grandfather's family came from, but Ukmerge is some 118 miles from Zagare. This isn't far by today's standards but then it was a long way, though the people travelled widely for work, but probably not with a three year old. And local passports were needed to travel out of your area at times. The fact that the name is correct could be a link, but I understand from a well-respected researcher that the surname Mark is very like Smith here, so links are often difficult to establish - but stranger things have happened so I am going to look at the links now. Thank you for an interesting start to the morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeriCourtney Posted 9 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2020 Have now seen your second link! Certainly a Dina is on it and I note she is described as 'niece' and aged 14 years as at 1858, born 1844. A large family, or families!! I need to check births of her children, and her memorial stone to see what date of birth is there, to try and establish more clearly a realistic approximation of her birthdate. What is encouraging is that she is shown in Zagare. I am currently not at home but as soon as I get back I will check and make contact. It would be good to find Sarah (Strauss) with her, but perhaps she went on her own. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Tattersfield Posted 9 January , 2020 Share Posted 9 January , 2020 16 hours ago, GeriCourtney said: One thing I did notice was that there was no indication of anything having been stapled to it, or any holes which might have indicated it had been part of a file. I posted on a genealogy site that I use regularly in case there was anyone with experiptiss in this direction but, so far, no responses. Maybe if David is browsing this thread then can you let me know please David if there would be a further file in your experience? On this set of cards I've never come across another document being stapled to the back of the original (this does not apply to other sets of cards, both those that have been published and the yet to be published sets). These cards were 'finding aids' and were used to help the clerks find other files. These will have long ago been destroyed (apart from a small set of example files which are at TNA (PRO). The only clue here to the file this card pointed to is the long reference on the card being 11/Gen/1436/2/A Part 1 All that I can suggest is a long (and tedious) search among cards to see what names come up with similar reference numbers to this and see if there's any pattern that emerges for awards with this type of reference..... It will be like looking for a needle in a haystack though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 9 January , 2020 Share Posted 9 January , 2020 41 minutes ago, David Tattersfield said: On this set of cards I've never come across another document being stapled to the back of the original (this does not apply to other sets of cards, both those that have been published and the yet to be published sets). These cards were 'finding aids' and were used to help the clerks find other files. These will have long ago been destroyed (apart from a small set of example files which are at TNA (PRO). The only clue here to the file this card pointed to is the long reference on the card being 11/Gen/1436/2/A Part 1 All that I can suggest is a long (and tedious) search among cards to see what names come up with similar reference numbers to this and see if there's any pattern that emerges for awards with this type of reference..... It will be like looking for a needle in a haystack though. I suspect it might be a reference to an instruction, I've seen simialr format references used before - which one though is another matter Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Tattersfield Posted 9 January , 2020 Share Posted 9 January , 2020 Just now, ss002d6252 said: I suspect it might be a reference to an instruction, I've seen simialr format references used before - which one though is another matter Craig Yes, some sort of 'manual' perhaps. (In my days in Banking, what we'd refer to as 'Head Office Instructions'.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeriCourtney Posted 9 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2020 Thank you both! David & Craig Barry I've now looked at the info I have on Dina and she was born in 1856 and I then noticed, by calling up her particuar record on the Census you sent, that the father of the particular Dina referenced was Gilel. This is I guess is a bibical Hebrew name but there is no English translation for it, and I don't think it could have been Rachmiel. His name meant something like God is my comfort. I then looked up Liba and as she was noted as sister under that particular family heading, and as I know there was only Sarah and Samuel, Liba is a different Dina's sister. It looks as if that Mark family have two other families billeted there - permanently or temporarily! Am around for a while & then out again in what is proving a frenetic week. Thanks, Barry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 9 January , 2020 Share Posted 9 January , 2020 Having just re-read your original post I'm left wondering why this thread has gone so far off topic. Discussion about various families back in the 1850's won't solve the mystery about Abraham/James Strauss and could have been done by Private Message. This thread is already 5 pages long and is increasingly difficult to follow. JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeriCourtney Posted 9 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2020 Sarah Strauss, James' mother, is part of the same family as those for whom OPs have asked me for other family information, e.g. the names of James' children, his siblings etc I am new to this so am learning as I go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeriCourtney Posted 9 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 9 January , 2020 That should be Posters not OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 9 January , 2020 Share Posted 9 January , 2020 25 minutes ago, helpjpl said: Having just re-read your original post I'm left wondering why this thread has gone so far off topic. Discussion about various families back in the 1850's won't solve the mystery about Abraham/James Strauss and could have been done by Private Message. This thread is already 5 pages long and is increasingly difficult to follow. JP Hear,Hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 9 January , 2020 Admin Share Posted 9 January , 2020 5 hours ago, helpjpl said: Having just re-read your original post I'm left wondering why this thread has gone so far off topic. Discussion about various families back in the 1850's won't solve the mystery about Abraham/James Strauss and could have been done by Private Message. This thread is already 5 pages long and is increasingly difficult to follow. JP A reasonable observation, for those still interested can we please stay on topic and limit the discussion to the Great War and the immediate aftermath. The original questions do not appear to have been answered so reluctant to close down the discussion but family history from the 1850s may be discussed, as suggested, by PM or on other forums such as Roots Chat. There was an earlier attempt at a recap and summary but that didn't seem to take the relevant discussion forward. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 10 January , 2020 Share Posted 10 January , 2020 Thanks Ken- the subject of deportations/ repatriation is a most interesting one, which I may spend some time working on. We are,of course, familiar with the situation after 1945 with the "forced" repatriation of Soviet citizens, -the Tolstoy/Bethell stuff on the one hand and the Toby Aldington stuff on the other. But these sort of repatriations/deportations are a new one on me for the Great War. I recall having to read up decades ago about COs being taken to France to put them beyond the reach of the UK civil law (Habeas Corpus etc) and am a little surprised that this episode is not better known. It is, of course, a British pre-echo of "extraordinary rendition"- moving people around jurisdictions to avoid standard civil liberties rights. Yes, the British had done it before- the well-known case of Arabi Pasha suggests a pattern to this. The 2 things I would concentrate on, which would help the OP are: 1) What was this "detention" camp at Chanak? And are there any records of it. 2) Who were the other Russian nationals deported/repatriated-and how were they linked? The link MAY be the British Socialist Party -there are occasional references out there about Jewish members in it being harassed as "Bolsheviks" but I need to graze the shelves of the LSE Library for that one. Hope to be able to see the FO files I quoted above the week after next at Kew. The Chanak camp must have left some records- as a start may I pose the following question which colleagues may have the answer to: Chanak - which command was it controlled by? And are there any operations records/diaries for that command????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 10 January , 2020 Share Posted 10 January , 2020 1) What was this "detention" camp at Chanak? And are there any records of it. It appears to have been a transit camp and the eighty bolshevik sympathisers were held there prior to being landed at Novorssisk: https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/written-answers/1919/aug/11/chanak-camp-dardanelles#S5CV0119P0_19190811_CWA_54 JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 12 January , 2020 Share Posted 12 January , 2020 Having trawled through the British Newspaper Archive from 1915, North West Region, I can find only 2 mentions of the Strauss family: I don't know if there is any mention of James in the second article - 23 January 1918 - because I don't have a subscription. On 06/01/2020 at 21:26, charlie962 said: Just to complicate matters, James's brother Harry, a year younger, joined the RAF (service number 131718) on 23/1/18. Svc record on Findmypast here So why did he serve (only UK service) and not his brother?? The OP is adamant that James did not serve and this article may be of interest: https://www.jewsfww.uk/russia-or-britain-take-your-pick-2709.php JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 12 January , 2020 Share Posted 12 January , 2020 JP, The article mentioned at the bottom of your post is extremely interesting. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 12 January , 2020 Share Posted 12 January , 2020 5 hours ago, helpjpl said: Having trawled through the British Newspaper Archive from 1915, North West Region, I can find only 2 mentions of the Strauss family: View 3 pages FREE when you register: https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/account/register JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 12 January , 2020 Share Posted 12 January , 2020 5 hours ago, alf mcm said: JP, The article mentioned at the bottom of your post is extremely interesting. Yes.Very useful background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeriCourtney Posted 13 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 13 January , 2020 Thank you, JP, for the link which I will use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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