Is this a practice rifle grenade

[arantxa]

Thanks

[14276265]

Yes, it is a practice No.3. Unfortunately it looks like it has been broken a couple cm up from the base.

 

 

 

 

265

Edited 30 December , 2019 by 14276265

[Gunner Bailey]

Super find. 

[Andy A]

Fantastic find and to find it in one piece despite the crack is great. Do you have a picture of it in its entirety? Be great to see it if you do. I just love to see these drill grenades from WW1. I have several no 5s in their original white paint.

 

 

Andy

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Is anybody aware of a solid cast iron practice rifle grenade? I have one that was found on a WW1 range, it is similar to a No35, albeit a little shorter in the body with an 8" rod. I'll try to get some pictures up if I can track it down.

[14276265]

On 02/01/2020 at 14:38, ServiceRumDiluted said:

Is anybody aware of a solid cast iron practice rifle grenade? I have one that was found on a WW1 range, it is similar to a No35, albeit a little shorter in the body with an 8" rod. I'll try to get some pictures up if I can track it down.

 

Might be a Grenade, .303-in Rifle, Practice, Nos 24 & 35 MkI, Iron, Dummy, but an intact rod would be either 11" or 15". The only rifle grenade to use an 8" rod was No.44, special purpose (anti tank). A photo would help if you have one.

[Gunner Bailey]

A plain solid practice rifle grenade was introduced in 1916  with the No 20. Illustrated in the Landers book but I've never seen one for real. 

[ServiceRumDiluted]

 

Two images. Rod is 8 inches but may have broken off.

 

[14276265]

Thank you for the images. It does look like an iron dummy No.24 & 35, albeit with a truncated stem. The body should be hollow and might have either a closing plug or dummy detonator, or neither.

 

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Thanks 124, its definately totally solid. No plug or hollow body.

[14276265]

Here is part of the drawing for the practice item I thought yours might be, but as yours is solid it is clearly a variation. There is a one line comment elsewhere that does refer to a solid casting, but unfortunately no diagram.

 

The images seem to show your example has corroded around where the base meets the body, effectively shortening the body. Is that the case?

[Gunner Bailey]

It seems that these practice rife grenades are a bit of a grey area.

 

There seems to be two official designs, covering 1) The No 3, 3A and No 20 Mk I and 2) the No 24 and 35. However both seem to be pretty rare and here on this thread there are two other designs, one of which is very well made which do not figure in official records. I've never seen either in real life, and suspect that when the bombing schools gave up on the long rodded rifle grenade, most if not all were scrapped. To oppose that it's worth noting that rodded signal flares continued past the end of WW1 so training for these must have taken place.

 

My conclusion is that the one Matt has posted in #1 and the one SRD had posted in #8 may have been produced locally by bombing schools or by RE companies possibly because of poor supply from the Royal Laboratories or elsewhere or possibly because the early rifle grenades 2,3,4,10, 11 and 20 Mk I were very expensive to make and they didn't want to use factory produced examples for training.

 

Here is the practice grenade from the Lander's Grenade book. Note that the description is different from SRD's example.

 

It's worth noting that the Germans produced a practice rifle grenade for the M1914 rifle grenade, BUT I have a version of it that is different to all I've seen illustrated in any book or seen in any museum.

 

So odd one's are out there.

 

Edited 5 January , 2020 by Gunner Bailey

[ServiceRumDiluted]

On 05/01/2020 at 15:01, 14276265 said:

 

 

The images seem to show your example has corroded around where the base meets the body, effectively shortening the body. Is that the case?

 

 

Hi 124, no the corrosion is just on the surface, nothing is missing, the body is pretty short. It looks cast as there are no lathe marks.

[Gunner Bailey]

I've been looking more closely at the 2nd picture in post #1

 

The base of the grenade is marked K.F. I. which is 'Kirkee Factory - India'. So this practice grenade was brought into France / UK by Indian troops, which explains why we have not seen this type before. Kirkee (now Khadki)  is a small town outside Pune (was Poona), where the Indian Army still makes bullets and explosives. So this would have been made in an Indian Army workshop for use solely by the Indian Army.

 

There may be a description in the Indian  'List of Changes' to cover this but it won't be in the British LOC.

 

 

Edited 9 January , 2020 by Gunner Bailey

[14276265]

On 08/01/2020 at 22:27, ServiceRumDiluted said:

 

Hi 124, no the corrosion is just on the surface, nothing is missing, the body is pretty short. It looks cast as there are no lathe marks.

 

Hi SRD, it certainly looks cast. But it seems awfully light for solid cast iron with remains of a base and rod. If you don't mind when you get a minute could you take a photo looking at the top of the body. It would be interesting to see that. Thanks.

[14276265]

6 hours ago, Gunner Bailey said:

 

There may be a description in the Indian  'List of Changes' .

 

 

 

Para. 9266 for Grenade, .303-inch rifle, practice, IP.

[Gunner Bailey]

3 hours ago, 14276265 said:

 

Para. 9266 for Grenade, .303-inch rifle, practice, IP.

 

Nailed it!

[JMB1943]

In the photos of the original post, there appears to be a broad arrow (= British Govt. ownership) marking.

I don’t think that this is normal for Indian-produced items, and does it imply a Brit. Govt. contract to make these practice grenades?

 

Regards,

JMB

[14276265]

Broad arrow over I is India Service acceptance stamp.

[Gunner Bailey]

Here's another example on an Indian Training grenade base plate.

 

[JMB1943]

Gentlemen,

Thank you.

 

Regards,

JMB

[Gunner Bailey]

After a search in my slightly chaotic paperwork I've found the Indian LOC 265 mentioned above.