Seaman on SS Princeps

[temptage]

Ive found mention of a seaman who was listed as 'killed' on board a hired trawler, SS Princeps, Adty No 1504. Built 1911, 264grt, Grimsby-reg GY.636. Armament: 1-6pdr. In service 1914-1919.

 

Now forgive my innocence, but if the ship was in Admiralty service, considering it was armed, shouldnt any death on board, regardless of reason, be commemorated by the CWGC, or would this be a case of another Mercantile Marine man not being accepted?

 

His name was William Ivan Towler Byrne, born in Grimsby in the last quarter of 1897, and died 'in Icelandic waters' on 3rd April 1915. He was serving an apprenticeship at the time.

 

In 1916, when the boat was serving out of Malta, another of its crew died, and he is on the CWGC database.

Edited 28 December , 2019 by temptage

[clive_hughes]

Hi Temptage,

He was born 28 Oct. 1897 and baptised 19 Nov. following at New Clee St.John parish church, Lincolnshire.  Son of James William and Beatrice Annie Byrne of 65 Mansell Street.  Father a fisherman.  

 

I'd love to have found him on the Registers of Deaths at Sea, but either he isn't listed or I'm searching wrongly.  He'd only be recorded by CWGC if he was in the RNR/MMR; or alternatively if he was Mercantile Marine whose death was due to enemy action.  Can't find him in the BT377 RNR records at the Nat. Archives, and can't access the MMR or RNR medal rolls.  

 

I can't see the ship on the 1915 Crew Lists website, or himself listed as a mariner there either.  So if he was a simple non-RNR etc. fisherman and was killed, say, by a falling block & tackle, the CWGC wouldn't cover him.  Sorry, this isn't much help. 

 

Clive

[horatio2]

The Grimsby trawler PRINCEPS was not taken up by the Admiralty until 5 May 1915 at HMS HALCYON, the Lowestoft base. So she was not an Admiralty boat when he died and was, presumably, fishing.

[temptage]

Thanks you two. Just to further confirm your details I received this from someone on Facebook

 

 

Could Princeps be an error, with the ship actually being called Princess, as seen above. The cutting was taken from a local newspaper, which reported regularly on the local ships, so chances of mis-spelling the ships name would be uncommon. 

[clive_hughes]

Princeps/Princess could be an understandable error.  As could be William J for William I Byrne.  The scenario above, assuming the date concerned is April 1915, would explain why he wasn't commemorated.  He should still be in the Registers of Deaths at Sea, however?

[temptage]

There is no local burial for William, so I'm presuming he was either buried at sea or his body was landed in Iceland and buried there. 

[DavidOwen]

Is this the same man? Listed as Byrnes Wm IT, died 1915 (I'm presuming the handwritten "Births" refers only to that right hand column)

 

(Image courtesy of FMP)

 

[temptage]

7 hours ago, DavidOwen said:

Is this the same man? Listed as Byrnes Wm IT, died 1915 (I'm presuming the handwritten "Births" refers only to that right hand column)

 

(Image courtesy of FMP)

 

Yes that'll definitely be him, with the additional 's'. 

I might try to get into the local Library and Archives to see if there was anymore articles in the newspapers giving any more details. 

[clive_hughes]

Thanks to DavidOwen; I hadn't thought to widen the variants on the surname as opposed to the forenames!

 

He is indeed in the Return of Deaths at Sea 1915 as follows (I've kept the original spellings): aboard the vessel Princeps (official no.132109).  Died Saturday morning April 3rd 1915, Off Westmann Islands, Iceland.  Named as William Byrnes, age 16, Deckhand, British national.  Last place of abode Grimsby, address stated as unknown.  Cause of death: Accident.  A wire rope pulled him twice rounds the winch and throw him on the deck.  Crew member (as opposed to passenger).

 

Register image can be seen here if you can access FMP: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=BMD%2FMTM%2FBT334%2F0063%2F001-225&parentid=BMD%2FD%2FMARITIME%2F768766

 

Clive 

[temptage]

1 hour ago, clive_hughes said:

Thanks to DavidOwen; I hadn't thought to widen the variants on the surname as opposed to the forenames!

 

He is indeed in the Return of Deaths at Sea 1915 as follows (I've kept the original spellings): aboard the vessel Princeps (official no.132109).  Died Saturday morning April 3rd 1915, Off Westmann Islands, Iceland.  Named as William Byrnes, age 16, Deckhand, British national.  Last place of abode Grimsby, address stated as unknown.  Cause of death: Accident.  A wire rope pulled him twice rounds the winch and throw him on the deck.  Crew member (as opposed to passenger).

 

Register image can be seen here if you can access FMP: https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=BMD%2FMTM%2FBT334%2F0063%2F001-225&parentid=BMD%2FD%2FMARITIME%2F768766

 

Clive 

 

Thanks Clive.

 

I think we have come to the conclusion that he is not a candidate for commemoration, and now we have found the exact reason for his death, I just want to find out where he was buried, if at all. Hopefully the local rags may be able to answer that, if there are any death notices from family, or even a later write up about him. I shall put my Sherlock Holmes deerstalker on and get to work.

 

Clive, unfortunately I cannot access FMP, but something I have used for a long time is a little program called LightShot which takes screen grabs of ANYTHING that is on screen at the time. Very useful on many an occasion. Just click the link to take you to the download page. Check it out.

[DavidOwen]

Strangely there are two baptism records in Cleethorpes, one on 27 October 1897 for WIlliam Ivan Towler Byrne and the second on 19 November 1897 for William James Fowler Byrne on FMP both have the same father, James William and Mother, Beatrice Annie. BUT, I can find only one birth registration for William Ivan T.

 

Solved it. The second entry is a miss-index of the first and the first records in error his birth date rather than the date of his baptism.

 

Incidentally the address given is 65 Mansell Street and the father's occupation as Fisherman..

[Terence Munson]

Tragic is perhaps too often used to describe accidents and events but it surely applies to this family. I researched these several years ago because of my interest in Grimsby’s Sea Fishing Apprentice’s (Both my Grandfathers were former SFA apprentice’s, but the modern take is to concentrate on the abuse of boys - when in fact many prospered and became Ship owners and skippers, a much respected status in the fishing community and Town. Those it didn’t suit, more often than not voted with their feet!).

 

     James William BYRNE b. 1870 Yarmouth was a skipper of several Grimsby trawlers from 1902. He answered the call in 1914 (Seniority 31 Aug.1914) Service No: 258 W.S.A.

Assigned to H.M. Tr “Touraco" Adm. No: 609 ( Port Reg: GY 347).

He was found dead at RN Barracks, Chatham 24 Dec. 1914 aged 44.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/3056530/byrne,-james-william/

Additional Info: Husband of B A Byrne. (Beatrice Annie), of 116 Lovett Street, Cleethorpes.Lincs.

 

   William Ivan Fowler BYRNE, A Grimsby Sea Fishing Apprentice, signed indentures on 09 Oct. 1913 He died 03 Apr. 1915 aged 16 a deck hand on the Grimsby trawler "Princeps" GY 636, in an accident off the Westmann Island, Iceland. (I’ll shall never forget the twice round the winch description).

 

   George BYRNE, (17) of 116 Lovett Street, New Clee, Grimsby, one of the crew on the Grimsby trawler “Tuscan” (GY 82), has been drowned at sea. During heavy weather a roll of the ship flung Byrne over the bulwarks. Everything possible was done to save him, but he sank and was lost.

[Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer 28 December 1916 (Thursday p.6 of 8)]

 

Terry