Brecknockshire Battalion S.W.B. W.D.

[BIFFO]

Where can I find the WD of the Breckonshire battalion SWB, n.a.?

 

[RussT]

Do you mean the Brecknockshire Battalions of the South Wales Borderers?

 

As per the LLT only the 1/1st Battalion of this Territorial Force unit served overseas - but not in a theatre of war so I don't think any of the Battalions would have kept a war diary as such.

 

The only reference I can find in TNA under WO/95 is per this link:

 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ser=WO+95&id=C14303&_q=Brecknockshire

 

Regards

 

Russ

 

[kenf48]

The war diary noted above was for action in Aden.  This was a theatre of war. In WW1 it was an important coaling station for the navy.

The Brecknocks were posted there to relieve the 1st Bn Lancashire Fusiliers, a Regular Battalion.  The remainder of the Wessex Territorial Division went on to India to relieve the regular Battalions stationed there.  The Brecknocks landed on the 25th November 1914.

 

The privations of the campaign in Aden meant that there were many casualties mainly due to illness and heatstroke. The Battalion was evacuated to India in August 1915 where they remained for the duration, and beyond.  India was not a theatre of war therefore no diary for this period when they were on garrison duty, until 1919 at Mhow.

 

The men who fought in Aden were entitled to a trio, later reinforcements who joined the Battalion in India solely the BWM.  Although on garrison duty at Aden half the Battalion, about 400 men formed part of the Aden Movable Column who from 3 July 1915 participated in a punitive action involving a devastating route march in searing heat.

 

Googling ‘Brecknocks in Aden’ will give you many references to the campaign.

 

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

 

[MaureenE]

Online article “The British Campaign in Aden, 1914-1918” by Mark Connelly, now archived

https://web.archive.org/web/20140808040827/http://www.js-ww1.bham.ac.uk/articles/issue3_Connelly.pdf

 

Based on War Diaries, including WO 95/5438 (referred to in post 2 above, by RussT), and referred to as 4/South Wales Borderers, Brecknockshire battalion. Probably this is the same battalion elsewhere referred to as 1/1st Brecknockshire Battalion, South Wales Borderers
. 

 

Cheers

Maureen

[BIFFO]

thank you all VERY Much,its a bit of a puzzeler,I have just bought and yet to research a 15 trio for a chap who fought in the 1st batt

Brenocks,SWB,he came back and given a crickhowell tribute medallion , he fought in India and Aden,then back to India.

YET my grandfather also in  the Brenocks,at the start of the war sent out to India,then Aden,then back to India,he was only entitled to the Victory medal??.

As I say I have a few sets to research then I will start on the Brenocks

[Coldstreamer]

likely just a British war medal - you couldnt get just a victory

[Keith_history_buff]

Although the Brecknockshire battalion arrived in Aden on 16 December 1914, it was only service from 3 July 1915 onwards that was deemed to be in a theatre of war.

This newspaper article is likely to be of interest.
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3857488/3857491/28/

This thread makes for a good read, too.

 

[Keith_history_buff]

Frederick James, service numbers 69 and 200011, has a surviving service record. He was discharged, Time Expired, on 2 April 1917.

[BIFFO]

20 hours ago, Coldstreamer said:

likely just a British war medal - you couldnt get just a victory

David Havard reg N0 3727,renumbered 201452,

his MIC says he is only entitled to BWM,yet his Medal Roll says he is entitled to BWM and Victory Medal,like you I thought every one who fought in ww1 given Victory medal,my cousin has the medal(thinks its worth money,which it isnt except to me for family value)I have only seen the BWM .

He would never talk about the war,he did say once he had been in India and Aden,on his medal roll it says he was in the 1st BrenocksI have a summery of the Brenockshire battalions,sure enough the 1st  left 29th Oct 1914,sailed from Southampton part of South Wales Brigade,with the home counties div,landed Bombay 3 Dec 14,moved to Aden arrived 16th December 14,returned to Bombay  Aug 1915,stationed at mindenhow central India,October 1919 embarked for UK.

he never ever spoke about the war,mind he didnt like Churchill much esp after he ordered the British army to break up the Tonapandy riots 1910-11, after being bayoneted  im surprised he volunteered 

[Coldstreamer]

Im pretty sure India is one location that would/could qualify for a BWM only

 

[kenf48]

The heading of David Havard's Medal Roll entry Victory Medal is struck through.

 

 

The British War Medal was awarded to those servicemen and women who left his/her native shore anywhere in the British Empire, they did not have to serve in a theatre of war.

 

The Victory Medal was awarded to those who served in a theatre of war.  India was not a theatre of war, Aden is peculiar in that it became a theatre of war after July 1915, prior to that the troops were on garrison duty as elsewhere in the Empire.  It is arguable whether or not those who remained on Garrison Duty and did not join the movable column qualified.

 

If they served in a theatre of war in 1915 they were entitled to the 14-15 Star. Therefore all the Brecknocks who qualified for the Victory Medal in Aden would automatically qualify for the 14-15 Star.  

See https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/the-british-campaign-medals-for-the-great-war/

 

3727 in the Brecknocks probably dates from around July 1916 (possibly a Derby Scheme recruit attesting the previous December) as in the account on the previous thread cited above the Brecknocks were evacuated from Aden on 5 August 1915 and did not return, remaining in India as part of the Mhow Garrison until moving to Calcutta in 1919 (some of their number saw service on the NWF, and would qualify for the IGSM).  Pte. Havard could not have served in Aden, initially enlisting in 3/1 Brecknocks and then going out to India in a reinforcement draft.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

[kenf48]

2 hours ago, BIFFO said:

on his medal roll it says he was in the 1st BrenocksI have a summery of the Brenockshire

 

Pedant alert

 

It's the Brecknockshire Battalion, the only Territorial Force Battalion affiliated to the South Wales Borderers, usually abbreviated to the 'Brecknocks', not the 'Brenocks'

I've amended your title  

 

Ken

 

[BIFFO]

As I have said in previous post,my grandfather never spoke about the war,BUT he deffo said he was in India,then Aden then back to India,

Biffo

[kenf48]

5 hours ago, BIFFO said:

As I have said in previous post,my grandfather never spoke about the war,BUT he deffo said he was in India,then Aden then back to India,

Biffo

 

Unfortunately the numbers are transparent, his Medal entitlement indicates service in India.

 

 

As previously stated the 1st Brecknocks, decimated by sickness, left Aden for India and service in the Mhow garrison on August 5th 1915.  They did not return to Aden.

 

3616/201355 - enlisted 3/1 attested Derby Scheme mobilised 1 May 1916, posted 3/1 Brecknockshire 3 May 1916

 

3727/201452 - enlisted 3/1 (he could not, according to the numbers have enlisted in the 1/1)

 

3738/201464 - enlisted 3/1 attested Derby Scheme mobilised to 3/1 3 July 1916

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

 

[Keith_history_buff]

With regard to the Brecknockshire Battalion and the three battalions of the Monmouthshire Regiment, did each have a separate service number allocation setup, or was there one single "TF" number allocation for these units affiliated with the South Wales Borderers? I'd be interested to see if anyone on here has been studying the service numbers of men to these units for the periods 1908-1916, and the enlistment date associated with the four digit numbers, as gleaned from service records and SWB rolls.

[kenf48]

7 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

With regard to the Brecknockshire Battalion and the three battalions of the Monmouthshire Regiment, did each have a separate service number allocation setup, or was there one single "TF" number allocation for these units affiliated with the South Wales Borderers?

 

The Monmouthshire Regiment was formed in 1908 when the Territorial Force came into existence.  While it had a historical affiliation to the South Wales Borderers prior to that date as the  Volunteer Rifle Battalions of the SWB,  from 1908 it was a Territorial only regiment with three Battalions.   A fourth was created during the war.

 

The Brecknockshire Battalion, previously the 1st Volunteer Rifle Battalion South Wales Borderers retained that affiliation following 1908 as the only TF Battalion remaining in the Regiment.  The numbering of the Brecknockshire Battalion from 1908 was entirely separate to that of the Monmouthshire Regiment. 

 

As to the numbering of the latter I can't help you but if they followed the usual pattern of the TF each Battalion numbered separately. 

One of the Brecknocks who died in Aden was Sgt. Pryce Hughes he was numbered '30'.

https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/428312

 

In the renumbering exercise of 1917 both the Brecknockshire Battalion and the Monmouthshire Regiment were once again administratively linked to the South Wales Borderers and renumbered as shown on the LLT

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/

 

Ken

 

 

[Keith_history_buff]

Thank you Ken. I am a novice on matters pertaining to the TF, so found this of interest. It is interesting that when the renumbering was done in 1917, each of these battalions had their own separate range of numbers.

[ss002d6252]

4 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

Thank you Ken. I am a novice on matters pertaining to the TF, so found this of interest. It is interesting that when the renumbering was done in 1917, each of these battalions had their own separate range of numbers.

An attempt to stop duplicate numbers within a regiment (rather than at battalion level as earlier).

 

Craig