basiloxford Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Hi everyone, I'm hoping that someone can help me with a query regarding a CWGC headstone. I'm currently researching the First World War burials at Botley Cemetery near Oxford, and i've come across something of an anomaly. As far as i'm aware, the cut off date for a war graves burial of the First World War is 31 August 1921 - yet i've come across a man who died on 14 April 1922. His name was James Ernest Stephen Dawson, and he had previously served with the OBLI and Labour Corps. His headstone shows his regiment as OBLI, and he was recorded as Pte. 201081. Although he has a CWGC headstone, and is buried in the war graves plot, i cannot find an entry on the CWGC website, and his death certificate shows that he was living at home in Oxford, (where he died) and he died of tuberculosis and heart disease. He was 34 years old. His occupation was recorded as a confectioner, which suggests he had left the army at the time of his death. His widow was granted an army pension in August 1922. So my question is, how come he was buried in a war graves plot eight months after the cut off date, and why is there no record of his death on the CWGC website, Thought's anyone Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Are you sure it's a CWGC headstone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Just looked at findagrave - it is indeed a CWGC style headstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basiloxford Posted 18 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Hello, Thank you both. Yes it certainly is a CWGC headstone. Although it's on the end of a row, it lies in the First War burial plot, and is just a few yards from the Cross of Sacrifice. Barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Surely an original stone would not have been lifted to add an inscription in 1954 or later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 There's something about that stone - the unevenness of the grain, the OBLI logo which looks to my untrained eye a little rough and ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Although the stone appears to be of the CWGC style I suspect it was privately purchased, is the stone numbered on its edge? J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 It doesn't "appear" to be of the CWGC style, it is of the CWGC style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDWARD1 Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 (edited) There is something about the finish that is just not quite right (as mentioned in post 6) Is it 2ft 6" H and 15" W? It also has more than the 63 letters and spaces maximum allowance for the personal inscription. Edited 18 December , 2019 by EDWARD1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basiloxford Posted 18 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Hi Chris, Not sure on that one. It's certainly not the only headstone in the First World War section to have a wife added at a later date. I've obtained a copy of his entry from the burial register and it confirms the burial as 18 April 1922. His wife's name was added to the register in 1954. As he was buried at the end of a row, I did wonder if his remains may have been moved at some point, but the burial register appears to contradict that idea. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basiloxford Posted 18 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Thank you all for you replies. I cannot say for certain, but from the photos i've taken, none of the graves are numbered. There is a Rotunda in the cemetery, and this houses the cemetery register, and plans of where the burials are located. Again i haven't measured the stones, but they certainly all appear to be the same size. Barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 13 minutes ago, Gareth Davies said: It doesn't "appear" to be of the CWGC style, it is of the CWGC style. same same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 If you look at the stones on this website, you'll see that the tassel hanging from the bugle is a solid shape. In the OP's image, the individual tassel braids have been cut. The stones also have a fine, even, smooth texture. Something has also gone wrong with the engraving of the second dotted band from the wide end of the bugle- or perhaps just later damage. https://rememberourdeadregimentallist.weebly.com/2nd-battalion-oxford--buckingham-light-infantry.html He clearly didn't qualify for a CWGC stone, under the rules in force, but that didn't mean he was in any way undeserving. I expect his family wished to correct that anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 3 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: same same No no. 2 hours ago, basiloxford said: Hi everyone, I'm hoping that someone can help me with a query regarding a CWGC headstone. I'm currently researching the First World War burials at Botley Cemetery near Oxford, and i've come across something of an anomaly. As far as i'm aware, the cut off date for a war graves burial of the First World War is 31 August 1921 - yet i've come across a man who died on 14 April 1922. His name was James Ernest Stephen Dawson, and he had previously served with the OBLI and Labour Corps. His headstone shows his regiment as OBLI, and he was recorded as Pte. 201081. Although he has a CWGC headstone, and is buried in the war graves plot, i cannot find an entry on the CWGC website, and his death certificate shows that he was living at home in Oxford, (where he died) and he died of tuberculosis and heart disease. He was 34 years old. His occupation was recorded as a confectioner, which suggests he had left the army at the time of his death. His widow was granted an army pension in August 1922. So my question is, how come he was buried in a war graves plot eight months after the cut off date, and why is there no record of his death on the CWGC website, Thought's anyone Barry I have asked the good people of Twitter to see if they might be able to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 And the answer, from the CWGC SE Regional Operational Coordinator, is that it is an early style MOD stone. Later MOD stones, as I am sure we all know, have the shoulders cut out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basiloxford Posted 18 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Again, thank you all for taking the time to reply. If as it looks likely it's not an official CWGC burial, would his family not have needed to obtain permission to have him buried in the CWGC section? Botley cemetery is a large civic cemetery, and what became the CWGC plot was set aside for the 3rd Southern General Hospital during the First World War. I've posted another Oxford & Bucks headstone for comparison, and this one is just a few feet away from Dawson's burial. Barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 No. A number of cemeteries have MOD and CWGC side by side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basiloxford Posted 18 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Thank you for your input Gareth. Possibly because the CWGC section is located within a civic cemetery, i've found that burials appear to be a bit random at Botley Cemetery. Barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 1 hour ago, Gareth Davies said: And the answer, from the CWGC SE Regional Operational Coordinator, is that it is an early style MOD stone. Thank you Gareth, That's very interesting. Would you happen to know the qualification criteria for such a stone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Not a scooby I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 4 minutes ago, Gareth Davies said: Not a scooby I'm afraid. There’s some contemporary information on the matter here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mod-crests-or-unit-badges-for-use-on-memorials-and-headstones-permission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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