Guest Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Hi, I'd like to know what happened to him. His name is Albert Kelshaw, he was a sergeant in the Loyal North Lancashire Regiment. His regimental number is 11250. I know he died in Mesopotamia now known as Iraq, and he is remembered at the monument in Basra. I would like to know what happened to him. Any help would be appreciated thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 24 minutes ago, Steve_1975 said: Any help would be appreciated Sorry but nothing about his service/death. However, just in case you haven't already seen it, thanks to the Western Front Association / Ancestry (Fold3) a Pension Card is available Widow: Agnes Mother: Rachel, 3 Margaret Street, Mill Road, Liverpool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 18 December , 2019 Admin Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Looks like he may have enlisted in Liverpool in 1903 initially as a record survives on FMP here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 (edited) He was born in 1888. He was killed on the 9th of April 1916 when serving in the 6th Btn Loyal North Lancs. He was killed on the same day as a Lt R N de Chazal a French born officer in the 11th Btn. Both are on the Basra memorial...too early to say if it was the same action, but possibly so. Pvt Helm of the 11th was attached to the 6th and killed the same day....very heavy casualties for The Loyals that day on what I've found so far. Edit...not an exact count, but I have around 110 Loyals killed on the 9th. Edited 18 December , 2019 by sadbrewer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, sadbrewer said: He was born in 1888. He was killed on the 9th of April 1916 when serving in the 6th Btn Loyal North Lancs. He was killed on the same day as a Lt R N de Chazal a French born officer in the 11th Btn. Both are on the Basra memorial...too early to say if it was the same action, but possibly so. I don't think he was found either. I might be wrong but isn't the memorial in Basra for soldiers without graves?☹ Edited 18 December , 2019 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 (edited) The last attempt of the Relief Force to get through to the besieged British garrison in Kut el Amara was in April 1916. In the midst of this attempt there was an attack launched on Sannaiyat which was repulsed by the Turks with heavy losses to British Troops. Albert would presumably have been killed then. Because of the 'repulse' there must have been quite a few bodies not recovered; The Basra Memorial commemorates these men. Charlie eg wiki: As part of the Tigris Corps, the battalion attempted to lift the siege of Kut. Initially deployed along the left bank of the Tigris River, the battalion participated in the Battle of Fallahiya on 6 April 1916 and Battle of Sanniyat on 9 April 1916. The battalion managed to break into the Turkish positions at the Sanniyat, but because follow-on forces were unable to link up with them, they along with the rest of the 38th Brigade were eventually driven back Edited 18 December , 2019 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 (edited) Perhaps a battalion (and/or brigade) war diary might give more detail if it has survived. Edited 18 December , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Perhaps a battalion (and/or brigade) war diary might give more detail if it has survived. I'm currently trying to find one online, but not much luck! 24 minutes ago, charlie962 said: The last attempt of the Relief Force to get through to the besieged British garrison in Kut el Amara was in April 1916. In the midst of this attempt there was an attack launched on Sannaiyat which was repulsed by the Turks with heavy losses to British Troops. Albert would presumably have been killed then. Because of the 'repulse' there must have been quite a few bodies not recovered; The Basra Memorial commemorates these men. Charlie eg wiki: As part of the Tigris Corps, the battalion attempted to lift the siege of Kut. Initially deployed along the left bank of the Tigris River, the battalion participated in the Battle of Fallahiya on 6 April 1916 and Battle of Sanniyat on 9 April 1916. The battalion managed to break into the Turkish positions at the Sanniyat, but because follow-on forces were unable to link up with them, they along with the rest of the 38th Brigade were eventually driven back Ah thanks very much! Yes the date of the battle and of his death match up. Edited 18 December , 2019 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 (edited) Read more here in the Mespot Official History: archive.org War diary here and downloadable for 3.50 Edited 18 December , 2019 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Steve_1975 said: I'm currently trying to find one online, but not much luck! Ah thanks very much! My guess would be that he was either, killed during the advance to and break-in to the enemy position, or during what must probably have been a counter attack to throw them out. Edited 18 December , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Note that the Bn took over 25% casualties that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 (edited) It might be worth contacting the OP of this thread to see if his Diary of a fellow Sgt of the Bn mentions anything interesting for you? charlie (edited because OP of that thread has now clarified his thread is not about Loyal North Lancs and he has corrected thread title.) Edited 18 December , 2019 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 6 minutes ago, charlie962 said: Note that the Bn took over 25% casualties that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Hi, His Soldiers' Effects record notes him as "9.4.16 Death Presumed". 28 minutes ago, Steve_1975 said: 30 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Perhaps a battalion (and/or brigade) war diary might give more detail if it has survived. I'm currently trying to find one online, but not much luck! The Battalion war diary is here, and the Brigade HQ diary here. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 2 hours ago, clk said: Hi, His Soldiers' Effects record notes him as "9.4.16 Death Presumed". The Battalion war diary is here, and the Brigade HQ diary here. Regards Chris That’s good, it’s just a matter now for the OP to consider whether he is content to pay the £3.50 to access them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 2 hours ago, clk said: His Soldiers' Effects record notes him as "9.4.16 Death Presumed". The Daily Casualty List of 5th June 1916 reported him as missing (in a list of nearly 100 LNLs but no Bns identified). I could see no enquiry card on ICRC. The vast majority of the LNL casualties that day were 'missing' and I wonder at what point they were 'presumed died' ? What is the date of the Effects Ledger write-up ? PS I've cancelled my link in post12 to another, I thought related, thread above. Sorry to have sent you off in a wild goose chase Steve. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 News report of the operations, courtesy of the British Newspaper Archive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Steve, Note that your GGU had previously been wounded with the 6th Bn LNL, reported in the Daily Casualty LIst of 13/9/15 at which time he was a Corporal. This would suggest actual wounding early August 1915. The 6th LNL Embarked Avonmouth 17/6/15 per the LongLongTrail. Albert's MIC gives entry date of 15/6/15. (not uncommon for depart UK date to be entered on Roll instead) The 6th LNL landed Gallipoli Anzac Cove 6/8/15. That would be about the date Albert was wounded. More research for you to do! Worth checking the earlier War Diary to the one I posted in post9 above. It is available on Ancestry but here are the National Archives references that will help you find it. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 https://www.loyalregiment.com/18463-asjt-w-h-nelems-l-n-lan-r/ This chap was also killed on the 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000327%2f19160413%2f046&stringtohighlight=sannaiyat Link to a fuller article in the British Newspaper Archive ( subscription needed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 19 December , 2019 Share Posted 19 December , 2019 12 hours ago, charlie962 said: Steve, Note that your GGU had previously been wounded with the 6th Bn LNL, reported in the Daily Casualty LIst of 13/9/15 at which time he was a Corporal. This would suggest actual wounding early August 1915. The 6th LNL Embarked Avonmouth 17/6/15 per the LongLongTrail. Albert's MIC gives entry date of 15/6/15. (not uncommon for depart UK date to be entered on Roll instead) The 6th LNL landed Gallipoli Anzac Cove 6/8/15. That would be about the date Albert was wounded. More research for you to do! Worth checking the earlier War Diary to the one I posted in post9 above. It is available on Ancestry but here are the National Archives references that will help you find it. Charlie So he was at Gallipoli,and survived!😯 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 19 December , 2019 Share Posted 19 December , 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Steve_1975 said: So he was at Gallipoli,and survived!😯 The 6th LNL landed at ANZAC Cove on 4th August (not 6th) within 38th Brigade, 13th (Western) Division, as part of an attempt to break the stalemate that followed the earlier and much more famous (iconic) landing at ANZAC cove back in April. The opposed landing took several days and, after consolidation, the 6th LNL participated in the action to assault a range of promontories at ‘Sari Bair’ that commenced on 6th August and went on a few more days. Perhaps it was there that your GGU was wounded. There is a well written account of Sari Bair at the following link that briefly mentions the LNL on a position called Rhodedendron Ridge: http://historyhub.ie/the-irish-at-gallipoli-episode-4-august-offensive-sari-bair Edited 19 December , 2019 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 22 December , 2019 Share Posted 22 December , 2019 Here is a detailed and evocative description of what happened to 6th LNL around the time that Kelshaw was wounded in August 1915: https://www.loyalregiment.com/casualties-of-chunuk-bair-6th-bn/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 22 December , 2019 Share Posted 22 December , 2019 Thanks for that link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaurusSteve Posted 8 June , 2022 Share Posted 8 June , 2022 This is my Great Uncle. I have found so much information on him, but I am yet to find a picture. Maybe someone can help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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