RNAS Farman shot down 5 Nov 1916

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

 

I was checking the claims by ObLt Rudolf Wendelmuth in Turkey?

 

All sites seams to say the Wendelmuth arrived in Turkey around July 1916 and given either FA 8 or FA 5 in Sevdi Koy?

 

possibly  8th Company or 5th Company Tayyare Boluk 

 

From what I can find the 8th Company was not raised until Dec 1916 on the Caucasus Front, which would make is shooting down a RNAS Farman a bit strange?

 

While the 5th Company had been active around Jan 1916 reported from planes from 1st Company and some Fokkers (from the Fokker Staffel FA 6) at Smyrna.

 

The British were active off the Smyrna Coast but was this the FA with Wendelmuth?

 

I did see something that gave Wendelmuth in or attached to the Wasserfliegerabteilung. while that unit did operate a few aircraft in Smyrna, none are known around Nov 1916, being active along the Dardenelles and Black Sea coast at that time.

 

Any ideas here on what RNAS planes were lost around 5 Nov 1916? either around the Dardenelles or along the Smyrna Coast?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

 

 

[pete-c]

21 hours ago, stevebecker said:

Mates,

 

I was checking the claims by ObLt Rudolf Wendelmuth in Turkey?

 

All sites seams to say the Wendelmuth arrived in Turkey around July 1916 and given either FA 8 or FA 5 in Sevdi Koy?

 

possibly  8th Company or 5th Company Tayyare Boluk 

 

From what I can find the 8th Company was not raised until Dec 1916 on the Caucasus Front, which would make is shooting down a RNAS Farman a bit strange?

 

While the 5th Company had been active around Jan 1916 reported from planes from 1st Company and some Fokkers (from the Fokker Staffel FA 6) at Smyrna.

 

The British were active off the Smyrna Coast but was this the FA with Wendelmuth?

 

I did see something that gave Wendelmuth in or attached to the Wasserfliegerabteilung. while that unit did operate a few aircraft in Smyrna, none are known around Nov 1916, being active along the Dardenelles and Black Sea coast at that time.

 

Any ideas here on what RNAS planes were lost around 5 Nov 1916? either around the Dardenelles or along the Smyrna Coast?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

 

 

 

Steve,

 

6 November 1916, 'B' Flight from Thermi lost a Henri Farman which was attacked by a Fokker.  The HF was forced to land in the sea but both pilot and observer were unhurt.  They were carrying out a spotting flight over Cape Chemali.  I'll see if I can find anything else about this incident.

 

EDIT:  Just found the following:  The Henri Farman was apparently searching for guns at Cape Chemali on which to spot for Monitor M.33.  It was attacked by a Fokker monoplane at a height of around 5,000 ft.  The Fokker fired from behind at close range and damaged the HFs radiator.  The pilot of the HF side-slipped his machine on two occasions causing the Fokker to overshoot which enabled the HFs Lewis gun to be brought into action.  Owing to the damage to the radiator the HFs engine failed through overheating and the pilot was forced to ditch close to M.33.  The pilot was Flt Lt Barnato and the Observer, Sub Lt A.E.H. Roberts R.N.V.R. - both were uninjured.  The Fokker was engaged by the Monitor's A.A. guns.  The Fokker is described as being somewhat larger than a Bristol Scout and had black rectangular patches painted on the wing tips instead of the usual black cross. 

 

Hope this info is useful.

Edited 17 December , 2019 by pete-c

[Guest]

Pete,

 

Yes very useful.

 

The only problem is where is Cape Chemali?

 

Also what Sqn or ship was B Flight with?

 

The difference in dates does not worry me to much, as the action is so much more detailed then I can find. No other claims I can find by any other aircraft fill this action?

 

While some Fokkers were moved to Smyrna, the main group were around the Dardenelles in FA 6 or 6th Company Tayyare Boluk which had been known as the the Fokker Staffel until the 6th Company was formed early 1916.

 

So where Cape Chemali is lets me know if around the Dardenelles or the coast of Smyrna?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

[b3rn]

Thermi was the RNAS air station on Mitylene, so probably Smyrna area of operations. 

[michaeldr]

Cape Chemali {Sekertzek), — Between Cape Hydra and Cape 
Chemali, 4 miles eastward, the coast is bold, irregular, and steep-to. 
At nearly 1 mile from Cape Hydra and close inshore is the little islet 
of Sera, and between it and the shore are sunken rocks. At 1,400 
yards eastward of the islet is Chanakia Liman, an inlet about 1,400 
yards deep and \ mile wide, with from 22 fathoms water at the 
entrance to 5 fathoms near the head, and open to the northeastward. 
A shoal extends 200 yards northward from Cape Chemali, and about 
1} miles southeastward of it is the bay of Foggia Nova. 

From Mediterranean pilot, Volume 4

 

Below is Cape Hydra, so Cape Chemali must have been 4km to the east

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/38%C2%B044'24.0%22N+26%C2%B044'28.0%22E/@38.73692,26.786945,9306m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d38.74!4d26.741111?hl=en-US

 

This area is about +/- 40kms north of Smyrna

 

Edited 18 December , 2019 by michaeldr

[pete-c]

16 hours ago, stevebecker said:

Pete,

 

Yes very useful.

 

The only problem is where is Cape Chemali?

 

Also what Sqn or ship was B Flight with?

 

The difference in dates does not worry me to much, as the action is so much more detailed then I can find. No other claims I can find by any other aircraft fill this action?

 

While some Fokkers were moved to Smyrna, the main group were around the Dardenelles in FA 6 or 6th Company Tayyare Boluk which had been known as the the Fokker Staffel until the 6th Company was formed early 1916.

 

So where Cape Chemali is lets me know if around the Dardenelles or the coast of Smyrna?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

 

Apologies Steve,

 

I should have stated the fact that 'B' Flight was part of 2 Wing RNAS and, as Bern points out, Thermi was on the Island of Mitylene.

[pete-c]

Thanks for these details Michael.  I must admit that, apart from assuming that it was somewhere near Smyrna, I didn't know the exact whereabouts of Cape Chemali.

[seaJane]

Flt Lt Isaac Henry Woolf Barnato https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Barnato+adm

 

Edit: 

https://www.surreyinthegreatwar.org.uk/person/110431

http://charterhousewarmemorial.org.uk/RollofHonour.aspx?RecID=29&TableName=ta_factfile

 

Trivia of the day: related to Diana Barnato Walker of the ATA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_Barnato_Walker and to Esther Rantzen.

 

Edited 18 December , 2019 by seaJane

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, seaJane said:

Flt Lt Isaac Henry Woolf Barnato https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Barnato+adm

 

Edit: 

https://www.surreyinthegreatwar.org.uk/person/110431

http://charterhousewarmemorial.org.uk/RollofHonour.aspx?RecID=29&TableName=ta_factfile

 

Trivia of the day: related to Diana Barnato Walker of the ATA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_Barnato_Walker and to Esther Rantzen.

 

 

Hi Jane- You want trivia??   Isaac Barnato was the second member of his family to come to grief in warm water. His father, Barney Barnato, was a Randlord and a rival of Cecil Rhodes- mysteriously jumped overboard near Nadeira while sailing back to England after the Jameson Raid.

[michaeldr]

in warm water.

Not often applicable to the Aegean in November 

 

Another member of the clan drove to fame in Bentley motor cars (Woolf Barnato)

[Guest]

Gentlemen,

 

Thank you.

 

Most interesting

 

I surpose his profile will need to be corrected on most sites;

 

So the fight was somewhere near Smyrna, the Ottoman Air Company must have been the 5th Company, and as part of the Fokker Staffel (6th Company) was attached to the 5th Company around that time then the Fokker reported as the victor in this action must be Rudolf Wendelmuth who claimed a Farman around this date correct date being 6 Nov, not the 5 Nov and he was in the 5th Company not 8th Company as shown in his profile?

Cheers and a Merry Xmas

 

S.B

Edited 19 December , 2019 by stevebecker

[Guest]

19 hours ago, michaeldr said:

Not often applicable to the Aegean in November 

 

Another member of the clan drove to fame in Bentley motor cars (Woolf Barnato)

 

    But a lot warmer  jumping off the Woolwich Ferry platform,which is the nearest to  me for "bracing sea voyage"

It does not apply to Barnato et al but a small question across time which has puzzled me is-if a German aircraft shoots down a British plane over Bulgarian soil, whose POW is he-Germany or Bulgaria?  Treatment of the officer prisoners by the Bulgarians was much better than in Germany.