Fazakerley Posted 16 December , 2019 Share Posted 16 December , 2019 (edited) This is a post about a project to bring Private Edward Goddard’s grave marker and Memorial Plaque back to the UK from Canada. Quote Goddard was born at Hamilton Villa, Bairfield, in Buxton. Edward was one of eleven children. He enlisted to serve in Buxton and entered the war around December 1915. He served with the Labour Corps of the 48th Company, formerly the 9th Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment. Due to regimental name changes, Goddard possessed three service numbers: 66856, 46245 and 28374. It is believed that Goddard was injured at the Battle of Langemarck between 16 and 18 August 1917 and succumbed to his wounds on 19 August 1917. Edward is buried at the Outtersteene Communal Cemetery Extension in Bailleul, France, Row A, 18. You can read the full story here: http://thereturned.co.uk/blog/a-cross-in-canada/ Edited 17 December , 2019 by Fazakerley Edited quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Regiano Posted 17 December , 2019 Share Posted 17 December , 2019 Bairfield or Fairfield, Buxton. I'm no expert but have heard of and been to Fairfield in Buxton. Hamilton Vila appears to have been on Devonshire Road. Again, I'm no expert but Devonshire Road is close to the Opera House. I always thought the Fairfield district is further to the North East heading out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 17 December , 2019 Share Posted 17 December , 2019 Interesting to me because if Private Goddard was wounded approx. 16-18 August 1917, this would mean that this must have been somewhere between Boezinge (my village) and Langemark. Does anyone have information regarding 48th Company Labour Corps mid August 1917? I certainly would appreciate. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 17 December , 2019 Share Posted 17 December , 2019 1 hour ago, Aurel Sercu said: Interesting to me because if Private Goddard was wounded approx. 16-18 August 1917, this would mean that this must have been somewhere between Boezinge (my village) and Langemark. Does anyone have information regarding 48th Company Labour Corps mid August 1917? I certainly would appreciate. Aurel I think that should be 48th Labour Company, Royal Engineers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 17 December , 2019 Share Posted 17 December , 2019 Thanks Jim, You may or must be right. I am not good at all concerning things related to the Labour Corps, even the correct name. The name of the unit on the original marker indeed reads : 48/ Labour Coy R.E. I took 48th Coy Labour Corps from the CWGC. Do you think this is not correct? Do you think that what Fazakerley wrote in the opening post, He served with the Labour Corps of the 48th Company, correct? Does it make sense? I just don't know ... Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 17 December , 2019 Share Posted 17 December , 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jim Strawbridge said: I think that should be 48th Labour Company, Royal Engineers. The company formed out of 9th Infantry Labour Company Lincolnshire Regiment (see later post) was 48 Company Labour Corps. His number cross checks, they were between 28201 and 28800. (Source No Labour No Battle). The error in the first post is that the Corps was the uppermost level beneath which were, in this case, companies. Max Edited 17 December , 2019 by MaxD correction to title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazakerley Posted 17 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2019 (edited) Quote Goddard was born at Hamilton Villa, Bairfield, in Buxton. Edward was one of eleven children. He enlisted to serve in Buxton and entered the war around December 1915. He served with the Labour Corps of the 48th Company, formerly the 9th Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment. Due to regimental name changes, Goddard possessed three service numbers: 66856, 46245 and 28374. It is believed that Goddard was injured at the Battle of Langemarck between 16 and 18 August 1917 and succumbed to his wounds on 19 August 1917. Edward is buried at the Outtersteene Communal Cemetery Extension in Bailleul, France, Row A, 18. For the record, I did not write the above paragraph. It is a quote from this blog post: http://thereturned.co.uk/blog/a-cross-in-canada/ Edited 17 December , 2019 by Fazakerley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 17 December , 2019 Share Posted 17 December , 2019 The CWGC grave registration detail of 1920 does list his unit as 48 Labour Company RE although the later main entry and the index correctly refer to his unit as Labour Corps. This may be part of the reason for the confusion in the write up. It also refers to the number changes being due to regimental name changes!! Can't prove it but the tying of his death to the Battle of Langemarck may simply be that the dates looked right to the author - seen that before!. I can't tie in the first number quoted either, not on his medal card or roll. There is another error which I should have corrected in my earlier post. The correct Lincolnshire title was 9th Infantry Labour Company Lincolnshire Regiment which was not the same as 9th Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment. I have amended my post. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 17 December , 2019 Share Posted 17 December , 2019 Thanks, Max. But it is not simple (for me). On the other hand, it's nice to be learning all the time, even at my age. And I am glad you anticipated my question re the Battle of Langemarck. For I had wondered : Pte Edward Goddard may have been wounded earlier, can't he ? Maybe the beginning of August even ... Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 17 December , 2019 Share Posted 17 December , 2019 Really impossible to say. The Battle of Langemarck took place to the north east of Ypres. The cemetery, and where 1st Australian CCS was, is to the south west of Ypres. Not out of the question that he was taken there but without some record of where his unit was working it would not be sensible to speculate (there is no war diary for the company). Th Labour Companies were, as far as I am aware, Corps troops but as there were four Corps involved in that battle - who knows? My inclination would be to not link the date of his death to any particular action. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazakerley Posted 17 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2019 (edited) A photograph of Goddard’s current headstone, his MIC, medal roll, and CWGC documents. Edited 17 December , 2019 by Fazakerley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 17 December , 2019 Share Posted 17 December , 2019 Max, Exactly ! These were my thoughts too when your posting came in. And I also was having serious doubts as to the location where he was wounded. (My first thought had been : somewhere between Boezinge and Langemark ? But now ..). A reason for my doubts is that I think that if Pte Edward Goddard had been wounded between Boezinge and Langemark, he would not have been taken to a CCS near Outtersteene, but to one more NW ... In other cases I have never heard of a man being wounded here (near Boezinge) and then taken to Outtersteene ...) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazakerley Posted 17 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2019 Quote Percy was Piano Tuner with some of his brothers. He ran a Music Shop, which had belonged to his father. Unfortunately, Percy died on 17th August 1917. At home however, once the war was over, rumours abounded that he was still alive. In the end, the family had to write to the War Office and ask for confirmation to go in the local paper, to put an end to such rumours. Source: https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/story/3409 Quote Percy, as he was known, came from a very musical family. He not only played in the Buxton Pavilion Orchestra but he took over the running of a piano tuning and instrument repair, piano and music sales business when his father retired (died1915). He was married with one daughter who later went to live in Canada. Source: https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/story/441 Lives of the First World War: https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/2363014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 17 December , 2019 Share Posted 17 December , 2019 The seeming anomaly in the CWCG detail that has him as Lincolnshire Regiment is easily explained. All those men listed initially as Lincolnshire are all listed 9th Battalion and all are given on the final detail as "tranfs to (number) 48th Coy Labour Corps". As 9th Battalion was a reserve battalion that did not leave UK this is yet another mis naming of 9 Infantry Labour Company Lincolnshire Regiment. It looks like the common occurrence that their records had not caught up with the fairly recent transfer to 48 Company Labour Corps.(May 1917 formed). Clearly something happened around 18 August 1917 that caught up such a large number of Labour Corps men - it would be of great interest to chase that along.. Perhaps someone has an idea? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazakerley Posted 17 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2019 (edited) On the 18/19 August 1917, thirteen men from the 9th Infantry Labour Company Lincolnshire Regiment – all had been transferred to the 48th Company Labour Corps – died and were buried side-by-side in Outtersteene Communal Cemetery Extension, Bailleul. They were probably killed nearby. An explosion at an arms dump perhaps? Certainly they were a long way from the front line at that time: probably about 30 kilometres. Follow this link to see the full list of casualties on the CWGC website. Quote The Labour Corps always suffered from its treatment as something of a second class organization: for example, the men who died are commemorated under their original Regiment, with Labour Corps being secondary. Researching men of the Corps was made more difficult by this until the publication of the mammoth 'Soldiers died in the great war' collection where the Labour Corps was finally given it's own section in volume 80. Source: https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/units/3095/labour-corps/ J.F. Chapman and J.W. Chapman were both killed on 18 August 1917, and the minimal distance between their adjacent headstones might suggest that it was difficult to determine who was who after they died. This is sometimes an indication of a large explosion that makes proper identification impossible. Source: https://rememberourdeadregimentallist.weebly.com/labour-corps-a-h.html Edited 18 December , 2019 by Fazakerley Fixed battalion name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 I'd agree with your suggestion of something happening locally to where they are buried. Max PS Not 9th Battalion - 9th Infantry Labour Company Lincolnshire Regiment (See No Labour No Battle). The remember our dead site uses the title 9th (Service) Battalion - there wasn't one in 1917.. LLT: 9th (Reserve) Battalion Formed in Lincoln in November 1914 as Service battalion, part of K4. November 1914 : came under command of 91st Brigade, original 30th Division. February 1915: moved to The Hayes, Swanwick in Derbyshire. 10 April 1915 : became a reserve battalion. 1 September 1916 : converted into 11th Training Reserve Battalion in 3rd Reserve Brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Strawbridge Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 On 17/12/2019 at 10:33, Jim Strawbridge said: I think that should be 48th Labour Company, Royal Engineers. Sorry, I just went from the information on the grave marker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazakerley Posted 18 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Quote PS Not 9th Battalion - 9th Infantry Labour Company Lincolnshire Regiment Fixed. Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 (edited) The War Office casualty list of 20 September 1917 lists Goddard as having died of wounds. Listed alongside him are Labour Corps' men 28240 F. G. Allen and 28214 G. Taylor. The register of financial effects gives both as being with 48th Labour Company of the Labour Corps. The war diary of the adjutant of XVIII Corps says that on 6 August 1917 the company arrived in the corps area at La Motte and was attached to "RCE4". I must admit that I do not recognise the latter acronym, although I make a guess that it is Railway Construction Engineers. Edited 18 December , 2019 by Chris_Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazakerley Posted 18 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Thanks Chris. Whatever happened on 18 August 1917 probably killed a number of men immediately, and fatally wounded several others, including Goddard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 (edited) The same diary goes on to say (although in September) that for forthcoming operations, wounded casualties would be brought by number 5 Motor Ambulance Convoy to number 1 Australian Casualty Clearing Station at Outtersteene. They would be picked up from the Main Dressing Stations at Locre Hospice and Yonge Street (map ref N.29.a.2.6). The war diary of 1 Australian CCS reports that the area was subjected to an air raid on 19 August but no bombs dropped at the CCS itself. Possibility? Edited 18 December , 2019 by Chris_Baker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typejunky Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Cheers for this chaps, I'm following with interest. Have corrected the post too, that bit was cut and pasted in from a piece on the website Fazakerley found the marker on, As I was a bit short on time yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazakerley Posted 18 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2019 (edited) Quote The war diary of the adjutant of XVIII Corps says that on 6 August 1917 the company arrived in the corps area at La Motte and was attached to "RCE4". I must admit that I do not recognise the latter acronym, although I make a guess that it is Railway Construction Engineers. Quote The same diary goes on to say (although in September) that for forthcoming operations, wounded casualties would be brought by number 5 Motor Ambulance Convoy to number 1 Australian Casualty Clearing Station at Outtersteene. They would be picked up from the Main Dressing Stations at Locre Hospice and Yonge Street (map ref N.29.a.2.6). Locre Hospice was about 11 kilometres northeast of Outtersteene, and there's a La Motte-au-Bois – not sure if this is the place referred to in the diary – about 10 kilometres west of Outtersteene. Quote The war diary of 1 Australian CCS reports that the area was subjected to an air raid on 19 August but no bombs dropped at the CCS itself. Possibility? I think this is an interesting idea but most of the men were killed on 18 August. Edited 18 December , 2019 by Fazakerley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 18 December , 2019 Share Posted 18 December , 2019 Thanks for following that up Chris - I was intrigued. Somewhere in Goddard's records it says he died of wounds in 1 Australian CCS. The marker perpetuates, unfortunately, the incorrect attribution of 48 Company to the Royal Engineers although in the great scheme of things it doesn't really matter (except to the purist!). Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazakerley Posted 18 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 18 December , 2019 From the War Office Weekly Casualty List, September 25, 1917 – page 21: Died of Wounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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