RogerWill Posted 14 December , 2019 Share Posted 14 December , 2019 I managed to pick up a single Victory Medal named 'Dr T Kurdian M.E.F.' at the last Spink medal auction, with 'MEF' presumably standing for Mesopotamian Expeditionary Force. I have not been able to find a WWI Medal Index Card for Kurdian and am here assuming that he was a civilian doctor attached to British Military Forces there. I have seen one reference to Dr Kurdian working for Iraq State Railways around WWII, but would be very interested to learn more about them. Any help or pointers would be very welcome. Thanks. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 41 minutes ago, RogerWill said: with 'MEF' presumably standing for Mesopotamian Expeditionary Force. Can't help you with anything specific - yet! - but MEF stands for Mediterranian Expeditionary Force. It included the troops landed on the Dardenelles, the Egyptian Expeditionary Force and the British Salonika Force. Hope that helps, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 Dear Roger and Peter, Apropos MEF: here is another example. Swynnerton later shifted to the IARO... Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 From FreeBMD: Deaths Mar 1950 (>99%) Kurdian Tatheus 54 Marylebone 5d 343 Perhaps worth trying the British Newspaper Archive for an obituary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 1 hour ago, RogerWill said: Dr T Kurdian M.E.F.' While it could be relating to a Doctor, "Dr" is more commonly a shortening for Driver in the British & British Empire forces. A Driver could just as likely relate to Mules & Horses as Motor Transport. There were a number of locally raised support units like the Egyptian Labour Corps, the Greek Labour Corps, Maltese Labour Corps, etc, for which I understand it can be difficult if not impossible to track down Medal Index Cards. 35 minutes ago, seaJane said: From FreeBMD: Deaths Mar 1950 (>99%) Kurdian Tatheus 54 Marylebone 5d 343 Perhaps worth trying the British Newspaper Archive for an obituary? Checked the UK Government Probate Service for the period 1950 - 1955 and no obvious match for a Kurdian. There is a death notice in the edition of The Times dated Wednesday March 15th, 1950, which makes it clear that the man who died has Iraqi connections and so is probably the man working with the Iraqi state railway around WWII. (Copy attached - sourced The Times Archive). However, if he is the man who also received the Victory Medal he must have qualified as a Doctor incredibly early. Being 54 at the start of 1950 puts his date of birth as circa 1895, so no more than 23 by the end of the war. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 The following link form the National Archives "Abbreviations used in the First World War medal index cards" only lists Driver for Dr. so most likely Doctor is not a possibility. Doctors were called Surgeons at this period, and would have generally have been listed under some variant of Surgeon. https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/records/abbreviations-in-world-war-one-medal-index-cards-rank.pdf Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 6 hours ago, Maureene said: The following link form the National Archives "Abbreviations used in the First World War medal index cards" only lists Driver for Dr. so most likely Doctor is not a possibility. I did a search of the MiCs in the National Archive catalogue when looking for this men, using just the field "Rank/unit". "Dr" = no matches. "Driver" = 306,305 matches "Doctor" = 206 matches So Doctor remains a possibiliy. It's probably more a question of what abbreviations were used on medals rather than what was used on MiC's. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, RogerWill said: 'MEF' presumably standing for Mesopotamian Expeditionary Force. Or perhaps the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force as in the Gallipoli campaign of 1915-16 Edited 15 December , 2019 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 Gazette from 12th Jan 1920 has a Dr Thateous Kurdain, Mentioned, Mesopotamian expeditionary force. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31728/supplement/525 Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 Does it begin to look as if it might after all be the same man as the one who died in 1950? If so, yes he was young to be qualified, but perhaps his qualifications, if they were not British, took less time to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 Dear All, and seaJane, Yes, and it appears as if MEF was Mesopotamian Expeditionary Force, rather than Mediterranean Expeditionary Force, as previously thought. Quite a difference! Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 I suppose the same acronym could have been used for both, but an unusual situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave66 Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 Senior medical officer to first grade health director here in 1945, https://www.qdl.qa/en/archive/81055/vdc_100044159146.0x00004b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 I would still urge caution based on the age of the man who died in London in 1950. Civil Death register has first name as Tatheus Times Death Notice has first names at Tateos Agos. London Gazette MID entry has first name as Thatheos. They could all be interchangeable spellings, with confusion caused perhaps by unfamiliarity. Or it could be a family \ clan name and so you could, for example, be looking at father and son. To balance that Baghdad was a centre of medical training and the hospital would have fallen into British hands with the capture of the city. Presumably interns there would have been offered the opportunity to carry on working and learning. By the time of the MiD and the Medal such an intern might have qualified as a Doctor rather than being a doctor in training. I doubt whether too much effort went into getting such things right and so it was simpler just to show his title as Doctor. Speculation on my part but provides a route to the Great War man and the London death one being one and the same, without assuming the qualification was any less harder to get. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 Dear seaJane, Yes. Dear Peter, Yes. Dear Dave, Excellent research! Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 1. This article about the Iraq Railways. which starts on page 25, may be of interest. Dr T Kurdian is listed as Medical Officer, Railway Hospital, on page 29: http://harakevetmagazine.com/downloads/HRKIssue26.pdf JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 Dear JP, Super research! Dear Roger, Well done, securing the Dr T. Kurdian, MEF, Victory Medal! Dear All, Where is his BWM? Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerWill Posted 16 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2019 (edited) Thanks everyone for these thoughts and leads. If Kurdian may have been born around 1896 (as the death index suggests, though these are not always accurate), he could just about have qualified as a medical doctor by 1918 and perhaps a little earlier. He is not listed in the UK Medical Register, suggesting he did train overseas. The MID lists his as a 'Dr' with the 'Civil Hospital, Baghdad', so no military rank. But he somehow seems to qualify for medals as a civilian. Somebody suggested the medals may have been issued from India, which does not make research easier. Roger Edited 16 December , 2019 by RogerWill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 16 December , 2019 Share Posted 16 December , 2019 Contact details for St Sarkis Armenian Church, Kensington - where funeral service for Tateos A Kurdian was held on 17 March 1950. Church Office: http://www.accc.org.uk/st-sarkis/ JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 16 December , 2019 Share Posted 16 December , 2019 (edited) 20 hours ago, seaJane said: I suppose the same acronym could have been used for both, but an unusual situation. If the same acronym was used at the same time, then yes, very confusing I think that the date upon which the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force ceased to exist is probably 19th March 1916. Was MEF used in respect of the Mesopotamian force before then? Edited 16 December , 2019 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 16 December , 2019 Share Posted 16 December , 2019 47 minutes ago, michaeldr said: Was MEF used in respect of the Messopotamian force before then? Possibly not: cf. this book in the IWM: Composition of the Headquarters Mesopotamian Expeditionary Force [October 1917 - October 1918] . I presume this was the relieving force that finally took Baghdad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 16 December , 2019 Share Posted 16 December , 2019 5 hours ago, michaeldr said: If the same acronym was used at the same time, then yes, very confusing I think that the date upon which the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force ceased to exist is probably 19th March 1916. Was MEF used in respect of the Mesopotamian force before then? Presumably one set of campaigns was run from the War Office and the other from the India Office so they could argue there was no overlap and so no confusion - well at least not at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 16 December , 2019 Share Posted 16 December , 2019 Are you saying then that the double use of the acronym did in fact overlap in time (see SJ's post suggesting something later for the use in Mespot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUEX Posted 16 December , 2019 Share Posted 16 December , 2019 Up to Feb (?) 16 weren't forces in Mesopotamia actually Indian Expeditionary Force 'D' but around that point the WO took control and after that at some point they become Mespot EF And I think the Med EF became the EEF at some point in 1916. So I if there was an overlap in 'MEF's it may be brief. But I'm doing this from memory while actually focused on something else - so happy to be proved wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 16 December , 2019 Share Posted 16 December , 2019 Dear All, If that was the case, then the W/O Swynnerton, Customs Dept., MEF 15 Star was Mediterranean Expeditionary Force... Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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