Open Bolt Posted 10 December , 2019 Share Posted 10 December , 2019 13 hours ago, Charles Fair said: Didn't the War Office send Niven to the Highland Light Infantry? Yes, it is a long time since I read his autob, but from the reception he got it was clear his CO knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastSurrey Posted 10 December , 2019 Share Posted 10 December , 2019 I collected a number of these in connection with my history of a battalion of the East Surrey Regiment. Here-from WO374/35203-are some docs. relating to my greatuncle, Reg Howship, bank clerk, Rifleman London Regt. and 13th Royal Irish Rifles, later Lt. E.Surrey Regt. The application leading to a commission was his second attempt-the first could well have failed because of his appalling shortsightedness-6/60 vision! He went on to win the M.C. with 12th E. Surrey in October 1918 & then serve on the Rhine with 9th East Surrey. He died of t.b. in 1927, apparently related to his war service. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 12 December , 2019 Share Posted 12 December , 2019 WO374/64904, ex ASC, comm. 27/8/18 to 1st RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 13 December , 2019 Share Posted 13 December , 2019 WO374/60536,North Irish Horse, Comm. 3/18 to 3rd RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 13 December , 2019 Share Posted 13 December , 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 15 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2019 Michael - thank you much for this. If I may, I would like to include your great uncle in the database. Andy - many thanks too for these additional ones. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 15 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2019 Royal Engineer cadets at the RE OCB at Kelkham Hall near Newark also appear to have had an SD622 for their confidential reports. This is from a tiny sample of 11 RE cadets that I have found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 15 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2019 The Royal Artillery used a double-sided form SD 633 RA. This cadet went to No. 1 RGA cadet school, Trowbridge. (O/Cdt Allen WO 339/137481). The first column gives the report for their preliminary training at No. 2B Brigade RFA which was a preliminary course to assess potential cadets' suitability for the RA cadet schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 15 December , 2019 Share Posted 15 December , 2019 Some interesting comments. I take "fairly good" to be a positive comment, but "very fair"??? Does that indicate "Could be better"? "Just about average"? "Good enough"? Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastSurrey Posted 16 December , 2019 Share Posted 16 December , 2019 13 hours ago, Charles Fair said: Michael - thank you much for this. If I may, I would like to include your great uncle in the database. Andy - many thanks too for these additional ones. Charles That's fine, Charles. If you want some more-essentially for officers who served with 9th East Surrey- I can give you the WO339 and 374 references. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 16 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2019 15 hours ago, Moonraker said: Some interesting comments. I take "fairly good" to be a positive comment, but "very fair"??? Does that indicate "Could be better"? "Just about average"? "Good enough"? Moonraker This is one thing I am trying to establish. Was there a prescribed way in which the reports were to be written? Was this set by the War Office? I have no evidence one way ore the other at the moment. I would say the most commonly used terms fall on a scale: Poor - Fair - Good - Very Good. Does 'Very Fair' therefore fall between Fair and Good? I should be able to do a frequency count and see if there were differences by OCB. 2 hours ago, EastSurrey said: That's fine, Charles. If you want some more-essentially for officers who served with 9th East Surrey- I can give you the WO339 and 374 references. Michael Thank you, yes please, I will definitely dig them out if they have an SD 622. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastSurrey Posted 16 December , 2019 Share Posted 16 December , 2019 2 hours ago, Charles Fair said: This is one thing I am trying to establish. Was there a prescribed way in which the reports were to be written? Was this set by the War Office? I have no evidence one way ore the other at the moment. I would say the most commonly used terms fall on a scale: Poor - Fair - Good - Very Good. Does 'Very Fair' therefore fall between Fair and Good? I should be able to do a frequency count and see if there were differences by OCB. Thank you, yes please, I will definitely dig them out if they have an SD 622. Here are a dozen: G.R.Garraway E.Surrey WO374/26562 G.Simkins, E.Surrey WO374/62386 A.Stephens E.Surrey WO374/65125 A.H.White E.Surrey (ex-gardener) WO374/73587 J.H.L.Dacey, Ox & Bucks WO374/17537 E.W.Creegan E.Surrey WO374/16508 & WO339/113387 H.W. Gregory E.Surrey WO374/29212 R.Jacobs E.Surrey WO374/36884 (+ Later CO's report) G.Paterson E.Surrey WO374/52663 (+ later critical report from C.O.) T.Mc.C.Weir Argylls WO374/72948 H.Lancaster Loyals WO374/40579 W.G.T. Summers E.Surrey WO374/66374 (see my article in 'Stand To!' no.104-9/2015.) I examined the changing backgrounds of officers in 9th E.Surrey 1914-18 in my book 'Journey's End Battalion', after reading Mark Connolly's study of the Buffs. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUEX Posted 16 December , 2019 Share Posted 16 December , 2019 Edward James ACKROYD WO374/148 is a good tale. OCB report on file lauds him as 'lion hearted' - not surprising, previous 22 months in the Foreign Legion and a CdG. Damages knee in training, sent to garrison bn, hates it, uses good offices of French Embassy to help him wangle transfer to Int Corps and goes to BEF with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 17 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2019 On 16/12/2019 at 17:41, QUEX said: Edward James ACKROYD WO374/148 is a good tale. OCB report on file lauds him as 'lion hearted' - not surprising, previous 22 months in the Foreign Legion and a CdG. Damages knee in training, sent to garrison bn, hates it, uses good offices of French Embassy to help him wangle transfer to Int Corps and goes to BEF with them. Thank you, I will definitely dig out his file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 17 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 17 December , 2019 On 16/12/2019 at 15:59, EastSurrey said: Here are a dozen: .... I examined the changing backgrounds of officers in 9th E.Surrey 1914-18 in my book 'Journey's End Battalion', after reading Mark Connolly's study of the Buffs. Michael Michael - thank you so much for these, I will view next time I get to TNA, prob sometime in Jan. Your book is actually one of a number of unit histories that I have been looking at in order to find small samples of OCB officers. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 30 December , 2019 Share Posted 30 December , 2019 (edited) In general, what determined which OCB an officer candidate was sent to? (Was it decided by his current battalion?). In particular I'm trying to discover details relating to Sgt. William Frederick Allison, 1/14th London Regt. (London Scottish) commissioned into 7th Bn. Gordon Highlanders. Any help greatly appreciated. Michael Edited 30 December , 2019 by KizmeRD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 31 December , 2019 Author Share Posted 31 December , 2019 Hello Michael From what I can tell, it was almost entirely random as to which OCB a man would go to. For the regiments that I have looked at, their officers went to a wide variety of OCBs and that was decided by the Staff Duties department of the War Office once the candidate had arrived back in London. However, there may have been some biases. I suspect that men from Irish regiments were slightly more likely to have gone to No. 7 OCB at Fermoy and that men from Scottish Regiments were more likely to have been sent to Nos. 9 and 10 OCB at Gailes in Ayrshire. I have looked at some rolls for No. 14 (Inns of Court) OCB and this took a higher proportion of men fro the Inns of Court which was co-located in Berkhamsted (until 14 OCB was moved to Catterick in Jan 1918). However, Inns of Court men were sent to all other OCBs too. Do you have Allison's commission date? Have you seen his papers if they are in WO 339 or WO 374? There should be some indication in his papers of which OCB he went to. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 1 January , 2020 Share Posted 1 January , 2020 Michael, Backing up Charles comments, this is a list from Kimmel Park, near Rhyl. You quite often come across these lists in officers files. There are a few Irish & Scots regiments in attendance though. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 1 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 1 January , 2020 Thanks Andy, I've found a few of these lists too, whether from Part 2 orders, or other paperwork. This is the first one I have seen for No. 17 OCB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 1 January , 2020 Share Posted 1 January , 2020 Charles, This is an interesting read, and I have a couple of questions. The grades of most candidates seem to average at “Good”, and some candidates are actually described as “Average Cadet”. 1) Does this mean “holds his own in the class” or is this an example of damning with faint praise? (Perhaps I should be less cynical!) 2) Will the scope of your thesis allow you to assess the relative subsequent success, or lack thereof, of the high-fliers identified at the OCB level? Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 1 January , 2020 Share Posted 1 January , 2020 Charles/Andy - thanks for the replies to my question. Even if OSB was centrally allocated, I would hope that attempts were made to post officer candidates to locations within reach of home, so as to permit a brief spell of leave, if possible. Will obtain WF Allison's papers and see what more I learn from that (my wife's GF, killed at Roeux 23.4.1917). Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 1 January , 2020 Share Posted 1 January , 2020 (edited) On 31/12/2019 at 20:15, Charles Fair said: Do you have Allison's commission date? Have you seen his papers if they are in WO 339 or WO 374? There should be some indication in his papers of which OCB he went to. Charles Looks like William Frederick ALLISON was commissioned 2/Lt, Gordon Highlanders on 29 Nov 1915. See LG Issue 29393, 07 Dec 1915, p.12206 Be aware though, that William Fleming ALLISON was commissioned 2/Lt, Manchester Regt on 21 Dec 1915. A trap for the unwary there! See LG Issue 29408, 20 Dec 1915, p.12677 Mark Edited 1 January , 2020 by MBrockway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 1 January , 2020 Share Posted 1 January , 2020 I couldn't find this when I searched the Gazette, so very much appreciated. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUEX Posted 2 January , 2020 Share Posted 2 January , 2020 (edited) On 08/12/2019 at 09:29, stiletto_33853 said: Charles, This one might be of interest, an early type of the form issued by the War Office M.O.5(a) Room 226. This from WO339/46960 Later printed versions are 'Form Number 10'. Used by MO5(a) and its later incarnation MI6(c) for potential Int Corps officers (also interpreters and censors to an extent). Interview in WO, formal assessment of languages, and character references - the latter obtained by sending forms to the names supplied. Commissions via this route did not require attendance at OCB - these chaps are not being recruited as leaders of men. Edited 2 January , 2020 by QUEX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 2 January , 2020 Author Share Posted 2 January , 2020 12 hours ago, MBrockway said: Looks like William Frederick ALLISON was commissioned 2/Lt, Gordon Highlanders on 29 Nov 1915. See LG Issue 29393, 07 Dec 1915, p.12206 Micheal - if this is him then he cannot have attended an OCB as they were not set up until Feb/March 1916. However, it is possible he may have attended a 1 month post-commissioning course at a School of Instruction. I reckon no more than about 15,000 officers could have passed through such a course, or a max of 1 in 5 who received temp commissions prior to the OCBs. There is more about them on this thread: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now